eBikes: I have some questions

Electrically assisted bikes, trikes, etc.
kwackers
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Re: eBikes: I have some questions

Postby kwackers » 7 Dec 2019, 7:56pm

1982john wrote:Personally not even that old or grizzled yet looking into an ebike for a new commute which will be a 30 mile round trip instead of buying a car.

Just as much we need to get away from the stereotype that ebikes dont mean zero effort we should also get away from the idea they are just for the elderly!

How many more leisure cyclists and commuters could we get if there were cheap and decent ebikes available?

I just swapped the crank on my tourer for a bafang mid drive unit.
42 miles a day commuting, just over an hour each way instead of nearly an hour and half - which coincidentally was about the same as a train.
So yeah, they're not just for grizzlies.

Up until I got knocked off it I'd done around 2 years and 20,000 miles and it was still going strong. Apart from consumables nothing done to the motor and still the originally battery.

They can be quite cheap too.
Pick up a good second hand bike quite cheap, chuck a motor and battery on it for not too much especially if you don't need a big battery.

dim
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Re: eBikes: I have some questions

Postby dim » 7 Dec 2019, 8:36pm

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hemo
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Re: eBikes: I have some questions

Postby hemo » 7 Dec 2019, 11:35pm

al_yrpal wrote:The eBike I bought cost £1500. The bike itself was beautifully made of really good components, rack, stand, led lights, hydraulic disks and worth every penny of £800. The Bosch Motor and battery is probably £700 worth so to me its good value. It would easily cope with a 30 mile round trip every day.

There are cheapo BSO eBikes but I dont think they are in the same league and wouldnt cope with the stresses of that commute for any period of time.

I would expect that eBikes will drop in price as volumes made increase.

Al


Not with Bosch they won't get cheaper, a closed ebike system is one I won't entertain due to lack of being able to maintain it.

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willcee
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Re: eBikes: I have some questions

Postby willcee » 8 Dec 2019, 4:51pm

GuYS Guys GOOD KIT IS NEVER CHEAP , knowing what works is where its really all about..... as Commuting is about as hard on any machine as it could possibly be.. so cheap stuff seldom lasts the distance.. Kwackers on here afaik is about the longest using a self build machine and it has lasted the distance motor and battery wise.. e bikes are hard on tyres ...weight and speed and torque... wheels for same reasons, brakes because of dirt and weight, and esp if you are urban based ...braking every few mins.. drive train chains and cassette, dirt, lack of scheduled maintenance and torque.. all things that on any normal human power give issues but are happening faster and with more applied power on any E bike.. so manufacturers don't know what you are doing with the machines, they will grade down the quality, they perhaps think leisure cycling, but rest assured these days they are all at it.. to maximise profits , and to the devil with the rest... will

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al_yrpal
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Re: eBikes: I have some questions

Postby al_yrpal » 8 Dec 2019, 10:08pm

hemo wrote:
al_yrpal wrote:The eBike I bought cost £1500. The bike itself was beautifully made of really good components, rack, stand, led lights, hydraulic disks and worth every penny of £800. The Bosch Motor and battery is probably £700 worth so to me its good value. It would easily cope with a 30 mile round trip every day.

There are cheapo BSO eBikes but I dont think they are in the same league and wouldnt cope with the stresses of that commute for any period of time.

I would expect that eBikes will drop in price as volumes made increase.

Al


Not with Bosch they won't get cheaper, a closed ebike system is one I won't entertain due to lack of being able to maintain it.


Seem to be parts available for Bosch motors... https://www.performancelinebearings.com ... it-bdu2xx/
Replacement bearings, gears etc. If its a circuit board or module you have to go back to Bosch anyway. After all it isnt something very simple like a normal bike where you can replace parts easily.

Al
Touring on a bicycle is a great way to explore and appreciate the countryside and towns you pass through. What do you do to make a difference?

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Cugel
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Re: eBikes: I have some questions

Postby Cugel » 9 Dec 2019, 9:15am

al_yrpal wrote:
hemo wrote:....... a closed ebike system is one I won't entertain due to lack of being able to maintain it.


Seem to be parts available for Bosch motors... https://www.performancelinebearings.com ... it-bdu2xx/
Replacement bearings, gears etc. If its a circuit board or module you have to go back to Bosch anyway. After all it isnt something very simple like a normal bike where you can replace parts easily.

Al


Hemo's point is a good one: many e-bikes seem rather too monolithic and difficult to deal with should something of the motor, battery or gearbox go wrong. Many seem to use a very small front chainring too, which is surely going to be a weak point. And if the motor or battery goes defunct during a ride, the monolithic e-bikes tend to weigh rather a lot.

For this and other reasons I'll once more mention the Fazua Evation e-bike design, which carries the motor and battery as an easily-splittable and dropout-able module in the down tube, with a normal chainset attached to a BB gearbox connecting the motor to that chainset. This has several advantages over more monolithic e-bike designs.

* The motor/battery can be dropped out of the frame with one button press, in a second. The bike then functions as an ordinary bike. Most manufacturers of bikes with the fazua motor/battery offer a blanking plate to put over the empty chamber in the down tube, although the bike is structurally rideable without.

* Because the bike itself needs very little if any additional bits to cope with the motor, Fazua bikes can be light compared to BB motor bikes. 13-16 Kg is typical, depending on the other component and frame weights. This drops by 3.5 kg if the bike is used with the motor/battery out.

The battery can be taken in one second so it can be removed elsewhere to charge. This is a great benefit if your bike cannot be kept near an electricity source for the charger; or id kept in an environment (such as an outdoor shed) that might be detrimental to the charger and battery.

* Should the battery or motor fail, they can be replaced with another motor or battery module. No tools needed. The simple gearbox in the BB is also a module although that needs tools to remove and replace. The failed motor module, should you ever have one, is light enough to post away to Fazua for a fix or replacement if still under guarantee.

* If a significantly better battery or motor became available, the modular design would allow an easy "upgrade".

*****
Some hub motored e-bikes have similar advantages, although many seem to embed the battery in the frame in a way that doesn't make it easy to get in and out. In addition, a new motor needs a new wheel or wheel rebuild.

Cugel

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al_yrpal
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Re: eBikes: I have some questions

Postby al_yrpal » 9 Dec 2019, 9:31am

Nice comparison of the various drive systems here... https://www.mbr.co.uk/news/e-bike-motor ... ned-387821

My Ortler weighs in at 25kg which is reasonable for a rigid suspension fork tourer with an electric drive and heavy 500 wh battery. https://www.bikester.co.uk/739015.html Horses for courses. If I were commuting this bike would be a good solution. Hoping to do a bit of touring on it at some point.

Al
Touring on a bicycle is a great way to explore and appreciate the countryside and towns you pass through. What do you do to make a difference?

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horizon
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Re: eBikes: I have some questions

Postby horizon » 9 Dec 2019, 9:50am

1982john wrote:In the new year I'm working on a new project which means my lovely 6-mile commute is now 14 miles.



My take on this is that it isn't the journey (an e-bike can do it easily and back and so can most people as a one off), it's the commute (and back). On another thread, someone said they were trying to do the same thing but with a 20 mile commute. Many people said that the problem wasn't the bike but the time and the weather, the dark, the traffic, the cold and the fact that you have a day's work when you get there - and the same thing for weeks and months on end. Even motorcyclists might baulk at 14 miles on a wet, windy, cold morning. The great thing about a six mile commute is that you can keep moving but you won't be exhausted. Motorists do have it easy and they know it - and a lot of that is due to weather protection and comfort. So my view is that although the bike can do it, we humans might not be as resilient.
The experience of travel is something that you have to pay for but can never buy. Ho Ri Zon Chinese philosopher

apollo650

Re: eBikes: I have some questions

Postby apollo650 » 9 Dec 2019, 3:34pm

I have bit the bullet and got an ebike.

I got it because despite having done a 34 round trip commute over the last 4 years (only a couple of days a week) - I was struggling with the motivation and the sheer will to ride in winter.

I am not sure how it will go but I am hoping that the 1.5 hr commute time will drop and I will not struggle to do the commute in the mornings and evenings.

My average speed on the commute is about 11.5 to 12.5 mph. In the summer, spring etc I can get it up to 13.5-14mph but then I am more confident as there is more visibility etc so am tempted to not slow down as much.

Lovely bike al_yrpal

CXRAndy
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Re: eBikes: I have some questions

Postby CXRAndy » 3 Jan 2020, 5:01pm

If I was commuting all year round, I would invest in a S Pedelec, upto 28mph 1000W motors, large battery.

Downside only a few

Cost, they are pricey
Need a CBT or full driving license.
paperwork and insurance.

I cant understand the price premium for the kit and bike. An excellent motorcycle would be equal in cost

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Mick F
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Re: eBikes: I have some questions

Postby Mick F » 13 Jan 2020, 8:18am

Mick F wrote:The couple that came up that hill weren't "cyclists" born and bred like me, but two normal people wearing ordinary clothes exploring the area using eBikes to their maximum effect. Not in the least putting any effort into that hill, though they were pedalling.
Saw them again a few days ago. Same hill, no effort at all. Just sailed up a one chevron hill.

Also, I was riding in Plymouth last week, and I saw a chap on a eBike sailing along on the flat and slightly up slopes and not pedalling at all.
Mick F. Cornwall

reohn2
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Re: eBikes: I have some questions

Postby reohn2 » 13 Jan 2020, 9:39am

Mick F wrote:
Mick F wrote:The couple that came up that hill weren't "cyclists" born and bred like me, but two normal people wearing ordinary clothes exploring the area using eBikes to their maximum effect. Not in the least putting any effort into that hill, though they were pedalling.
Saw them again a few days ago. Same hill, no effort at all. Just sailed up a one chevron hill.

Also, I was riding in Plymouth last week, and I saw a chap on a eBike sailing along on the flat and slightly up slopes and not pedalling at all.

I think it's fair to say there are a good few illegal e-bikes being used out onnthe roads.
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Mick F
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Re: eBikes: I have some questions

Postby Mick F » 13 Jan 2020, 10:29am

Yes, it's obvious to people who know these things.
It's just that it's a matter of ............. "Does it Matter?" ............ and ............ "Does it do any harm?"

Who's complaining?
Certainly not the police.
Mick F. Cornwall

kwackers
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Re: eBikes: I have some questions

Postby kwackers » 13 Jan 2020, 10:48am

Mick F wrote:Yes, it's obvious to people who know these things.
It's just that it's a matter of ............. "Does it Matter?" ............ and ............ "Does it do any harm?"

Who's complaining?
Certainly not the police.

See increasing numbers of scooters being used (passed three this morning).
Ideal for 'final mile' commuting. Much simpler than a bike, cleaner to use (no 'special clothes' and no oil stains) plus they take up far less space at home / in work / on the train.

reohn2
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Re: eBikes: I have some questions

Postby reohn2 » 13 Jan 2020, 11:47am

Mick F wrote:Yes, it's obvious to people who know these things.
It's just that it's a matter of ............. "Does it Matter?" ............ and ............ "Does it do any harm?"

Who's complaining?
Certainly not the police.

The problems start when the loonies get them.We were in St Neots last year,i lovely part of the country for cycling infrastructure,but not without it's loonie element,young teenagers 14 to 16 years old estimated on unrestricted MTB e-bikes zooming up and down the main street on the pavement on the rear wheel frightening and endagering pedestrians,so much zo that I reported them to the police.
It's those idiots who'll instigate a crackdown on illegal e-bikes.
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