More powerful bike vs Twist & Go

Electrically assisted bikes, trikes, etc.
brendano
Posts: 5
Joined: 17 Dec 2019, 1:05pm

More powerful bike vs Twist & Go

Postby brendano » 22 Dec 2019, 12:36am

Hi everyone,

Hoping to get some opinions on the following. So I currently commute to work around 8 miles each way on an EvoMotion City Ebike - https://www.evoscooters.co.uk/electric- ... -bike.html

I am no expert on bikes but I'm assuming this would be classed as a low quality e-bike and does struggle on hills but is great on flats. The one benefit I enjoy on this is that it came with twist & go which I find a god send for getting home when I cant be bothered to pedal.

I have an opportunity through cycle to work scheme to invest in a new bike and have been looking at the below -
https://www.wheelbase.co.uk/product/e-b ... ntry-2020/

I guess my questions would be 1) Do you think there will be a massive difference in the experience I get from the newer bike, given it has the 2020 Bosch performance CX motor and better tyres/breaks etc compared to my existing bike which seems largely unbranded parts. 2) Would the potential added benefits of the new bike outweigh losing the twist and go in terms of making my ride quicker/more enjoyable with work bags etc.

I am trying to establish if the £2300 on the new bike will really add up to much of a difference in real cycling terms if used mainly for commuting other than it is a more visually appealing bike to me.

Thanks in advance for any responses.

lowrider
Posts: 131
Joined: 21 Mar 2009, 2:25pm

Re: More powerful bike vs Twist & Go

Postby lowrider » 22 Dec 2019, 9:57am

Without getting technical sounds like your trying to justify spending a lot on a shiny new bike. The old one does the job well enough though?

The Bosch system is great to ride in my opinion far better than a cadence and hub the new bike is a lot more appealing. The Bosch is a torque sensor system so you will have to work harder as you always have to put effort in. There is an issue however, the received wisdom is that unless you have a very hilly commute hub drives are far more reliable than mid drives(even Bosch). Without knowing the details of the old bike it may be easier to repair or if parts unavailable it would possible to find substitutions. The Bosch is more expensive to repair as you are tied to their dealer network and parts not generally available to the general public (could improve or might be available on the internet)

So there you have the dilemma you want the new bike because its a lot more desirable and better performance and more fun but the old probably more suited to your every day needs.

I think the answer is if you have the space keep the old bike for the commute and treat yourself to the new bike for high days and holidays. The new and expensive to run bike will last a lot longer, the old and more practical commuter will take the hit with commuting grind. Unless of course its got something fundamental that stops this, you can keep it going with cheaper parts until it becomes non viable with age or obsolescence. Also if one breaks you have a spare until repairs are done

stodd
Posts: 202
Joined: 6 Jun 2018, 10:24am

Re: More powerful bike vs Twist & Go

Postby stodd » 22 Dec 2019, 10:03am

Rules on throttles are very confusing, depending on age of bicycle and other things: using just twist and go may well not be strictly legal. The page you reference says 'and strictly for those riding on private land, the E-City can be reconfigured to twist and go, full-throttle operation'.

I'm sure you will find the Cube much better overall, and especially on hills. BUT you will always need to put in some power to get it to operate (around 1/4 from you, 3/4 from it on highest setting). A compromise would be a bike with cadence sensors, you would still need to pedal to get it to run, but you could ghost pedal without putting in any effort.

Big branded components have pluses and minuses: repairs and spare proprietary batteries can come very expensive. You might consider bikes that are a step up from yours but below the Cube in price; and maybe with respected but more 'open' brands on the parts. Look at what Woosh have to offer: http://wooshbikes.co.uk/; they provide good bikes and excellent service. Also, ask for advice at Pedalecs: https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/forums ... -i-buy.40/

reohn2
Posts: 37779
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: More powerful bike vs Twist & Go

Postby reohn2 » 22 Dec 2019, 10:22am

TBH,I seriously look at buying a bike that suits you and adding a Bafang mid drive conversion with 500wh battery pack integrated in the rear pannier rack.
The Bafang mid drive units are very reliable andnlong lasting by all accounts,the plus also beingnthat you can change the bike and swap the Bafang e-motor and battery kit over to the new bike,the kits+fitting come to around £800 with a decent battery,add the price of the bike,say £800/1000 and you are quids in over the Cube.
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I cycle therefore I am.

Polisman
Posts: 644
Joined: 9 May 2019, 2:23pm

Re: More powerful bike vs Twist & Go

Postby Polisman » 22 Dec 2019, 2:08pm

The mid mount drives are getting better and better. Users of the Bafang units are reporting issue free assisted cycling over 25,000km. Which is probably 4x my yearly ride.

brendano
Posts: 5
Joined: 17 Dec 2019, 1:05pm

Re: More powerful bike vs Twist & Go

Postby brendano » 22 Dec 2019, 6:10pm

So from the responses I gather the Bosch system and other higher end branded E-Bikes will cost a small fortune if anything goes wrong or even with standard wear and tear/replacement of pieces. Something I handnt really considered.

In terms of the "Bafang mid drive conversion with 500wh battery pack integrated in the rear pannier rack" is this something easily available in the UK? I have seen varying drives on Amazon etc for £800+ without the battery or fitting. Also, is it easy to find bike shops willing to fit these?

I like the idea of fitting a kit myself to a decent hybrid bike but it's knowing the trustworthy sources for the parts and labor. Also is this something that would be street legal given it states much faster speeds than a standard. Ebike?

Many thanks for all the helo!

stodd
Posts: 202
Joined: 6 Jun 2018, 10:24am

Re: More powerful bike vs Twist & Go

Postby stodd » 23 Dec 2019, 9:57am

Most definitely not street legal if it can give any assistance over 15.5 mph (unless you get it registered, insured, etc, etc). Also not street legal if it has a switch so that it can 'easily' be allowed to assist over 15.5 mph; the rules get a bit confusing there.

I'd recommend Woosh for kits (I'd already mentioned them for bikes above: http://wooshbikes.co.uk/). We have a kit from them but no bikes from them. They made sure the cables would be the right length for our tandem; we found excellent pre and post sales advice, as have many others on the Pedalecs forum). You may pay a little more than from the cheapest places, but you will know all the bits are compatible and that you will get good service is there are any problems.

You'll probably do better with a frame rack than a pannier rack, lower centre of gravity, but that will depend on the frame geometry of the bike. You won't need a 500wh battery but it is good not to be stingy on battery either.

Most mid drives come with torque sensors and don't have the ability to ghost pedal. I think maybe the Woosh BBS01 and BBS02 kits are crank drive with cadence sensors, and throttle. http://wooshbikes.co.uk/?cdkit. Check details with Woosh. Bafang are certainly well respected, but there are plenty of other good brands too.

reohn2
Posts: 37779
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: More powerful bike vs Twist & Go

Postby reohn2 » 23 Dec 2019, 10:40am

Brendano
Bafang mid drive kits:-
https://www.cyclotricity.com/uk/custom.html
https://www.brightonebikes.co.uk/store/p115/Bafang®_BBS01B_36V_250W_motor_kit_%28DPC-18_display%29_with_LG_M26_cell_36V_13Ah_carrier_rack_battery.html
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I cycle therefore I am.

stodd
Posts: 202
Joined: 6 Jun 2018, 10:24am

Re: More powerful bike vs Twist & Go

Postby stodd » 23 Dec 2019, 5:40pm

brendano wrote: Also, is it easy to find bike shops willing to fit these? I like the idea of fitting a kit myself to a decent hybrid bike but it's knowing the trustworthy sources for the parts and labor.
It can be quite difficult to find a shop happy to do it. They'll probably charge around £70-80 if you can find one. Woosh will do it, but that might not be convenient if you don't live near Southend, as it involves shipping the bike both ways rather than just the kit one way.

If you regularly do your own bike work you will find fitting a kit pretty easy, and no special electrical things to do as long as you get an appropriate kit. Allow 1/2 day for the first one; you will be going very carefully and double-checking everything and not quite sure what's what. Probably a 1 to 2 hour job when you are used to it (I've only ever done my one).

Brighton Bikes mentioned in the last post have a good reputation (second hand comment, I've no direct knowledge). If you are anywhere near them I'm pretty sure they'd supply the kit and fit.

hemo
Posts: 662
Joined: 16 Nov 2017, 5:40pm
Location: West Sussex

Re: More powerful bike vs Twist & Go

Postby hemo » 24 Dec 2019, 1:05am

The difference between any LBS or Woosh fitting the kit is Woosh aren't a one trick pony, they will adjust wiring professionally to suit the bike size as they are not just a ebike retailer. The owners Hatti and Tony Lee operate two or three separate tech companies from the same address combining some of the skills across each other for the purposes of the businesses. Computer , design and programming being among other techy stuff they do.

brendano
Posts: 5
Joined: 17 Dec 2019, 1:05pm

Re: More powerful bike vs Twist & Go

Postby brendano » 24 Dec 2019, 2:27am

Thanks,

I think I'll take a look at the Whoosh kits and see if my local bike mechanic will fit this for me.

Just as a side note, with the higher power motors being illegal to use - Is it possible to have one of the BBS02 fitted for example and then have the bike registered as a moped/motorbike with L plates or is this still a no go? In terms of having it type approved etc it seems like it may be a bit of a case of jumping through hoops although the UK really could do with introducing safe and well built E-Bikes which can legally exceed the 15.5mph to make it a more viable travel option for more people.

Many thanks

stodd
Posts: 202
Joined: 6 Jun 2018, 10:24am

Re: More powerful bike vs Twist & Go

Postby stodd » 24 Dec 2019, 9:46am

Yes, lots of hoops to jump through. The last one is that as the result is unconventional it is very difficult to get insurance. Do a search on the Pedalecs site and you'll see (my information is only second hand from there). They even have a specific sub-forum https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/forums ... ussion.43/, but most of the relevant posts are on other parts of the forum.

Just be thankful you aren't in Northern Ireland, where the rules are still ancient and it is difficult to be legal even with a bike that would be legal anywhere else in the UK or other parts of the EU.

hemo
Posts: 662
Joined: 16 Nov 2017, 5:40pm
Location: West Sussex

Re: More powerful bike vs Twist & Go

Postby hemo » 24 Dec 2019, 10:07am

Most insurers have no idea on how to cost the insurance for a plated registered ebike even though the reg's allow for it.
Some have gone through the process but it appears a ice moped is cheaper to insure.