Couple of newbie questions.

Electrically assisted bikes, trikes, etc.
Belwri
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Couple of newbie questions.

Postby Belwri » 3 Jan 2020, 12:06pm

Hey,

New to boards and ebiking. Couple of things I could use advice on.

1) Can anyone direct me to the largest (most variety) outlet in or near Hampshire where I can spend the day road testing a variety of ebikes. My intention will be to purchase. Mostly interested in hybrid (tarmac & trails) ebike.

2) I live with chronic foot pain that seems to have no cause (every doc and surgery poss for 10 years but nothing). I'd like to be able to get off road a little bit as well as town cycling and I'm concerned that 250/15.5 might struggle in the south downs without extra foot pressure. In all honesty folks, would getting a more powerful one REALLY be that bad? Do the authorities actually enforce this power restriction? I don't know how strict this forum is yet with such a question, but I'd appreciate some feedback (DM or w/e) from people that are derestricted if that's allowed. I'm unable to exercise other than swim and it's pretty depressing. Just want to know the ebike is capable of getting about without much help. Np pedalling btw just heavy pressure. Cheers folks

Chris

Vorpal
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Re: Couple of newbie questions.

Postby Vorpal » 3 Jan 2020, 12:59pm

Welcome to the forum. Similar questions have come up a few times before.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=131554
viewtopic.php?f=55&t=133618

They can be legal if classed as a moped and insured, and the rider has a valid licence.

We obviously cannot condone doing it other than by legal means.

I cannot help with the other questions, but I imagine that someone on here can.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

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al_yrpal
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Re: Couple of newbie questions.

Postby al_yrpal » 3 Jan 2020, 1:09pm

Evans Cycles have a try before you buy. A Pedelec needs you to peddle and you will need to peddle hard off road sometimes. You actually need a throttle controlled bike of some sort for which you need number plates, insurance, registration and a helmet. These types of bikes are illegal off road on bridleways. Look at mopeds.

Al
Touring on a bicycle is a great way to explore and appreciate the countryside and towns you pass through. Make a difference...

stodd
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Re: Couple of newbie questions.

Postby stodd » 3 Jan 2020, 9:40pm

Most Halfords will let you try an ebike relatively properly (1/2 hour) (***). Some of the bigger Halfords have extended trails (I seem to remember 2 days, but that does seem optimistic). They don't have that big a range of bikes, but enough to help get an idea of the style you want. Many 'proper' bike shops are extremely unhelpful about test rides, 5 minutes round the flat car park.

The authorities are very unlikely to check power unless a bike is very obviously illegal, or if you have an accident. For example they did pull up lots of illegal rickshaws the other day in London. Main issue is if you are pulled up the charges may include quite serious ones such as driving without insurance.

(***) From Winchester Halfords you can quickly ride over the motorway, then up and down to Easton and back in that time to get quite a feel for some hills even if not big ones.

hemo
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Re: Couple of newbie questions.

Postby hemo » 3 Jan 2020, 10:30pm

The Met and the rickshaw exercise was more I think to do with the legal riders probably making there pleas being heard as the vehicles are carrying fare paying passengers, albeit it appears ripping them off as well. This is the second purge the Met have had in the last quarter of 2019.
Last edited by hemo on 4 Jan 2020, 11:04pm, edited 1 time in total.

loafer
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Re: Couple of newbie questions.

Postby loafer » 4 Jan 2020, 2:14pm

got mine from these guys (IN YORK) https://www.electricbikesales.co.uk/ john at York could not be more helpful.. but then I knew which model I wanted just needed to take one out for test run :D

dim
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Re: Couple of newbie questions.

Postby dim » 4 Jan 2020, 4:10pm

I've seen a few guys in Cambridge with bikes that have the small motorcyle engine kits .... not sure if it's legal but that could be another option?

Image

lowrider
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Re: Couple of newbie questions.

Postby lowrider » 4 Jan 2020, 9:58pm

Hi,

2) I live with chronic foot pain that seems to have no cause (every doc and surgery poss for 10 years but nothing). I'd like to be able to get off road a little bit as well as town cycling and I'm concerned that 250/15.5 might struggle in the south downs without extra foot pressure. In all honesty folks, would getting a more powerful one REALLY be that bad? Do the authorities actually enforce this power restriction? I don't know how strict this forum is yet with such a question, but I'd appreciate some feedback (DM or w/e) from people that are derestricted if that's allowed. I'm unable to exercise other than swim and it's pretty depressing. Just want to know the ebike is capable of getting about without much help. Np pedalling btw just heavy pressure. Cheers folks


This sounds like you can put some pressure but not too much is this correct. I would be very careful on the type of drive you choose. But first you need to try different types of drive to begin with as a starting point.

Some drives require you to input pressure to the peddle to get any power from the motor. Known as a torque drive these will input at max 60% to 75% of the effort you provide the rest. If your foot is too bad then this type of drive they may not be suitable. Don't think it matters too much what power the motor has either is as if you have a 500w motor to get that out you will need to input at least 125w. You need to see what your foot can cope with.

Torque motors tend to be fitted to the more expensive types of e bike but not always, I have seen one as low £1200 (Sale price) with a Bosch motor. Note all Bosch drives are torque drives.

What might be more suitable in your circumstances is a cadence drive. These work on the basis that the motor provides power when the peddles turn. That does not necessarily mean that the peddles are turning fast enough to provide any power to the wheel only that they are moving, the motor can therefore on occasion provide 100% of the power. This feature maybe just what you need. With this type of drive you can get 100% full power (depending on the settings) without any pressure on the peddles so a bigger motor will definitely be of benifit.

All lower price range bikes work on this principle but again not always, I have seen bikes over £2,000 with cadence drive (not Sale price).

Unfortunately I cant help too much with models but Raleigh Modus was Bosch torque (any Bosch powered bike) some ridgebacks are cadence. Mid motors can be either Torque or Cadence, wheel hub motors are nearly all cadence but not all. Be very careful read the specs carefully and don't always believe the salesman, I found one that didnt know the difference.

You still need to get the thing going though if you can tolerate pressure on the peddle to get going fine but there may be options.

A Pedelec needs you to peddle and you will need to peddle hard off road sometimes. You actually need a throttle controlled bike of some sort for which you need number plates, insurance, registration and a helmet. These types of bikes are illegal off road on bridleways. Look at mopeds.


Not strictly 100% correct for the reasons I have stated above when moving but also I believe there is an exemption for throttles up to 6kph as an aid to getting moving, although I dont know of any bike that has this feature. Most seem to have a feature to help pushing the bike.

Also Wisper bikes will sell you a legal e-bike that has a throttle and type approval I suggest you speak to them if that is of interest.

A bit more out there was I read on the Pedelecs Forum on a post from Woosh bikes claims that the throttle rule does not apply to aftermarket fitting only for bike manufacturers. Basically they cant sell you a bike with one but you can retro fit one yourself after market. a bit like the rule on fitting bicycles with bells at the point of sale. I suggest you approach them if this is of interest to you and get some detail and evidence that their assertion is correct before committing. I couldn't be bothered doing so as I wasn't sold on having one, also I dont think many bikes these days have the facility for one (Chinese based e bike systems probably will allow this but check).

Hope this helps and good luck in your search.

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asinus
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Re: Couple of newbie questions.

Postby asinus » 11 Jan 2020, 5:55pm

Important to distinguish power from force: I guess your foot hurts if you put too much force/weight on it: power is the rate of doing work, which is different, and only partly relevant to your problem. You could minimize the force you put through your painful foot by
(a) using a cadence-sensor bike, as noted above, with the power level turned up (so go for one with variable power levels), and
(b) making sure that any machine you buy has low enough gears - not all do - so a machine with a small chainwheel is what you want. Best to buy from somewhere that understands the mechanics of bikes, not just the electrical side, therefore.

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asinus
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Re: Couple of newbie questions.

Postby asinus » 12 Jan 2020, 7:52pm

P.S. Should have said that what matters about the motor, if putting force through your foot is the problem, is theTorque it delivers, i.e. the turning force it develops - the more, the better. Since power = torque x speed of rotation, you'd just be losing top speed (but then, the motor has by law to cut out at 25 km/h anyway).
Hope this helps.

Belwri
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Re: Couple of newbie questions.

Postby Belwri » 12 Jan 2020, 8:25pm

Thanks for the time and effort in these replies 8)

hemo
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Re: Couple of newbie questions.

Postby hemo » 12 Jan 2020, 11:56pm

dim wrote:I've seen a few guys in Cambridge with bikes that have the small motorcyle engine kits .... not sure if it's legal but that could be another option?

Image



100% illegal unless DVLA registered,taxed and insured as they are mopeds.