"Which" magazine recommendation

Electrically assisted bikes, trikes, etc.
mikeos
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"Which" magazine recommendation

Postby mikeos » 12 Jun 2020, 3:53pm

Does anybody know "Which" magazines recommendation for ebikes they tested?

Jdsk
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Re: "Which" magazine recommendation

Postby Jdsk » 12 Jun 2020, 5:44pm

Rather interestingly they don't have overall scores for non-folding bikes. But they do for "electric bike motor, battery and display combinations".

The top three are Bosch and the next three are Shimano.

https://www.which.co.uk/reviews/electric-bikes/article/best-electric-bikes
possibly paywalled.

For folding bikes the Brompton electric H2L comes top:
https://www.which.co.uk/reviews/folding-electric-bikes
possibly paywalled.

Jonathan

mikeos
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Re: "Which" magazine recommendation

Postby mikeos » 14 Jun 2020, 10:56am

Many thanks for the reply. It is strange that they don't actually test complete bikes, which is contrary to their ad on Youtube which seems to indicate that the test is comprehensive.

Bonefishblues
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Re: "Which" magazine recommendation

Postby Bonefishblues » 14 Jun 2020, 10:59am

They might then fail the "what does Which know about cycles" test, perhaps? The battery & motor performance is the heart of it, and it seems on their evidence that the Bosch beats the Shimano every time.

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al_yrpal
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Re: "Which" magazine recommendation

Postby al_yrpal » 14 Jun 2020, 11:13am

Nice to know that my Bosch Performance Line motor is considered the tops. I did study which motor to go for and it seems I got it right. :D

Al
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Bonzo Banana
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Re: "Which" magazine recommendation

Postby Bonzo Banana » 15 Jun 2020, 10:01am

I have very little regard for Which testing. So much so that I would almost go to the opposite conclusions of their reviewers. Some of their reviews are horrifically amateur and poorly thought out. However the reliability surveys are useful except sometimes they don't factor in cost of repairs which I find ridiculous. If an item is 20% more reliable but has repair bills typically 200% as high as the average that to me makes it less desirable. Vacuum cleaner reviews which make sound levels ultra important in the review criteria but don't factor in the cost of replacement bags over the 5-10 year lifespan of the vacuum cleaner compared to cyclonic vacuums is just one of many annoyances about how they review.

If I was guessing how Which would review ebikes I would guess they wouldn't factor in the huge repair costs and more complicated designs of the ebikes they recommend going by past reviews. They would review based on how they ride with little regard for long term costs or reliability.

Which typically pushes premium products but the value option is often a mid price point option neither high end or bottom end in my opinion.

Cyril Haearn
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Re: "Which" magazine recommendation

Postby Cyril Haearn » 15 Jun 2020, 10:17am

I used to think 'Which' was quite good, but how does it ensure impartiality?
It tests all sorts of products, are experts retained to help? For cycles, how does one simulate a typical life cycle (10 years maybe) in a few weeks?
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al_yrpal
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Re: "Which" magazine recommendation

Postby al_yrpal » 15 Jun 2020, 10:27am

Bonefishblues wrote:They might then fail the "what does Which know about cycles" test, perhaps? The battery & motor performance is the heart of it, and it seems on their evidence that the Bosch beats the Shimano every time.


Yes, quite, what motor should I look for and why is the question most people about to purchase an ebike want answered and thats what Which have homed in on. There are those of us that have a pretty clear idea of what sort of bike we want, ie tourer, road bike, mtb etc but a lot of people looking at ebikes are not really keen or experienced cyclists and dont have a clue. In the past I have directed people to this... https://www.bikester.co.uk/info/choosin ... e-touring/ but, they often still vaccilate. Which should be doing something similar. Too often people end up with the wrong thing just like I did when I came back to cycling after a break of nearly 50 years.
I am a fan of a Bosch drive because I have one and I like it. I am sure they sometimes go wrong and have heard horror stories of the costs involved. As time goes on I am sure statistics will accumulate and make choices clearer.

Al
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al_yrpal
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Re: "Which" magazine recommendation

Postby al_yrpal » 15 Jun 2020, 10:33am

Cyril Haearn wrote:I used to think 'Which' was quite good, but how does it ensure impartiality?
It tests all sorts of products, are experts retained to help? For cycles, how does one simulate a typical life cycle (10 years maybe) in a few weeks?


Cyril, this is the question every Engineer has to ask. With the Concorde Airframe we 'flew' it in a hangar for months loading and unloading it to simulate taking on heavy fuel, gradually unloading it and loading the wings like they are loaded in flight, heating and cooling it to simulate air friction heating. Concorde had flown its complete life cycle before it ever took off. The answer is you build a rig to simulate working cycles and work it day and night to test it. You must have missed the matress adverts on tv :lol:

Al
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Cyril Haearn
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Re: "Which" magazine recommendation

Postby Cyril Haearn » 15 Jun 2020, 10:35am

Vestas has a rig to abuse wind turbines, trying to stimulate 20 years use in a few months :?
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Jdsk
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Re: "Which" magazine recommendation

Postby Jdsk » 15 Jun 2020, 10:45am

Which? isn't for specialists. It's for typical consumers. I've yet to find anything better.
Cyril Haearn wrote:I used to think 'Which' was quite good, but how does it ensure impartiality? It tests all sorts of products, are experts retained to help?

https://www.which.co.uk/about-which/research-methods

On impartiality it's way ahead of most specialist journalists where statements of interest are far too rare, see a recent thread.

We've certainly talked to them about specific domains, including screening programmes and home testing for medical purposes. But I don't know about bringing experts in on their tests.

I'm concerned that they have now allowed their sticker to be used by anyone for marketing.

Cyril Haearn wrote:For cycles, how does one simulate a typical life cycle (10 years maybe) in a few weeks?

As above.

Jonathan

Jdsk
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Re: "Which" magazine recommendation

Postby Jdsk » 15 Jun 2020, 10:46am

al_yrpal wrote:With the Concorde Airframe we 'flew' it in a hangar for months loading and unloading it to simulate taking on heavy fuel, gradually unloading it and loading the wings like they are loaded in flight, heating and cooling it to simulate air friction heating. Concorde had flown its complete life cycle before it ever took off. The answer is you build a rig to simulate working cycles and work it day and night to test it.

Where were you? My father worked on the windscreen at Triplex.

Jonathan

Oldjohnw
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Re: "Which" magazine recommendation

Postby Oldjohnw » 15 Jun 2020, 11:50am

I have in he past purchased a couple of major items based on Which recommendations: a fridge freezer and a vacuum cleaner. Never again: both disasters. Possibly unlucky but given that part of the recommendation was based on reliability........
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Re: "Which" magazine recommendation

Postby Bonefishblues » 15 Jun 2020, 12:37pm

Oldjohnw wrote:I have in he past purchased a couple of major items based on Which recommendations: a fridge freezer and a vacuum cleaner. Never again: both disasters. Possibly unlucky but given that part of the recommendation was based on reliability........

OTOH I typically sign up for a 1-quid trial to see what they think if I've got a big purchase coming up and all's well so far.

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simonineaston
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Re: "Which" magazine recommendation

Postby simonineaston » 15 Jun 2020, 1:09pm

Which magazine is a left-over from an era when there was greater trust and "independant" meant what it said. Those days have gone.
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