Effort or Speed?

Electrically assisted bikes, trikes, etc.
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simonineaston
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Re: Effort or Speed?

Postby simonineaston » 27 Jun 2020, 12:07am

Why are they all so heavy?
My 'leccy Brompton's not much heavier than it was before it made friends with Mr Volt :-)
ttfn, Simon in Easton
(currently enjoying a Moulton TSR & a nano Brompton...)

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Mick F
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Re: Effort or Speed?

Postby Mick F » 27 Jun 2020, 9:18am

Why are they all so heavy?

Ok, I stand corrected.
I shouldn't have used the term "all'.

Why are the only ones I see on the roads so heavy and ungainly?
Maybe it's because the folk who buy them want them like that because they are cheaper.
Mick F. Cornwall

Oldjohnw
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Re: Effort or Speed?

Postby Oldjohnw » 27 Jun 2020, 9:27am

Mick F wrote:
Why are they all so heavy?

Ok, I stand corrected.
I shouldn't have used the term "all'.

Why are the only ones I see on the roads so heavy and ungainly?
Maybe it's because the folk who buy them want them like that because they are cheaper.


Possibly because they are hardly distinguishable from non ebikes so you don't notice the lightweight road bikes.
John

NickWi
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Re: Effort or Speed?

Postby NickWi » 27 Jun 2020, 10:03am

Mick F wrote:Maybe it's because the folk who buy them want them like that because they are cheaper.


It's the old BSO market all over again, but this time with an electric motor.

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al_yrpal
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Re: Effort or Speed?

Postby al_yrpal » 27 Jun 2020, 10:46am

Its true that there are quite a few BSO type ebikes out there but any knowegable cyclist isnt going to buy one of those and suffer all the attendant problems. On an ebike you have a heavy motor and battery so they will be heavier. From 18kg to 25kg is the norm.

IMO there is a lot of ignorance and bias in the uk about bikes. People seem to think that mtbs look cool or need to look like racers with drops. All without mudguards, racks, lights and stands. But go to Germany Holland or Skandinavia which all have much higher bicycle use than the UK and its almost unthinkable to sell bikes without such essential gear. Bikes in these countries are solidly built, heavier and generally IMO better quality. Ebike uptake in these countries is higher too. So to British eyes ebikes look like tanks. But, as far as I am concerned I like the continental trekking bike format and thats what I bought. Substance over style :D

Al

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willcee
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Re: Effort or Speed?

Postby willcee » 27 Jun 2020, 11:22am

MICK asks why are they all so ungainly looking and heavy. Answer.. when you are on board it doesn't matter.. that svelt looking Italian offering is an Orbea clone Bianchis frame and Spanish Orbea Hub and wizard electronics, carbon and runs flat at 15.5 and is ok to push after that, compared to either a well built Bafang with 1hp motor or indeed the Yamaha motor in a Giant Road E ...that local hill you decry could be taken at 20 obviously with some effort.. making them lighter is a conversation Brucey and I had back in 2013 , he was right,lighter ones at speed are all over the place, 28 tyres no suspension either from rubber or fork all up weight 38lbs or 35 maybe ,brakes, you really need discs, with the right motor hills don't exist .. period... and believe me you don't always cycle at 20 plus its rather harder to concentrate.. potholes come at you much faster and you hit much harder... 2500miles + E power.....will

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simonineaston
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Re: Effort or Speed?

Postby simonineaston » 27 Jun 2020, 11:32am

Possibly because they are hardly distinguishable from non ebikes so you don't notice the lightweight road bikes.
I think that's true - recently, the only way I can readily spot a 'leccy bike is its unseemly speed! ;-)
ttfn, Simon in Easton
(currently enjoying a Moulton TSR & a nano Brompton...)

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Mick F
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Re: Effort or Speed?

Postby Mick F » 27 Jun 2020, 11:39am

Oldjohnw wrote:Possibly because they are hardly distinguishable from non ebikes so you don't notice the lightweight road bikes.
Ah, but you're wrong there.

They are all distinguishable round here due to their effortless hill-climbing.

Out riding last week on Moulton, and a group of roadie cyclists came up behind and overtook me. I'm used to this when riding Moulton. :lol:

Some stopped at the junction and waited for some others, and I went on ahead and started climbing the big hill up onto the edge of Dartmoor.
Half way up, one shot past me, and I knew it was electric even though it looked like a road bike. Large rear hub looking akin to a Rohloff.
Two or three of the others slowly overtook me and one laughed and said, "Not all of us have electric assistance!"
I reckon that was the first road bike I've seen in the flesh with an electric motor, but it was damned obvious what it was due to its speed up a steep hill.

So yes, round here, we have HILLS, and eBikes are easily recognised be they MTB, BSO, or fast racers due to their effortless climbing abilities.

I like hills. They make cycling entertaining and keep me fit. If an eBike makes hills disappear, one of them wouldn't suit me at all, so I can't see me ever buying one. I'd rather give up cycling.
Mick F. Cornwall

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bob simpson
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Re: Effort or Speed?

Postby bob simpson » 27 Jun 2020, 1:03pm

Mick, you better not try one because you will have to eat your words. You are passing judgement on something you have little knowledge about. I have for almost 50 years always had a manual gearbox cars because I couldn't see any point in an automatic. My latest car is an automatic and now wished I had changed years ago.
Most people I know who have tried an ebike are surprised how much they enjoy it.

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Mick F
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Re: Effort or Speed?

Postby Mick F » 27 Jun 2020, 1:48pm

We have a Yaris Hybrid.
They're called "automatic" but they're nothing of the sort.

I've driven automatic cars as well as vans, and I don't particularly like them other than in stop/start traffic.
The Toyota Hybrids don't have any gearbox, automatic or anything.
They are direct drive from the combination of the electric motors and the engine, and you have no control of the engine at all.
Put in D and go. No hesitation, no pauses for section of gears, just smooth seamless progress and it's wonderful and we love it. Heartily recommend them.

As for an eBike, you are no doubt correct. They probably are fun to ride.
But why do I ride a bike now?

I used to commute. Firstly to school, then to work.
After retiring, my bike was put away and cycling forgotten. I didn't miss it for years.

Then I wanted exercise and having a custom built Mercian, it was a waste just leaving it alone, so got out riding. Now, I love riding bikes, but for the exercise and the sheer enjoyment and bliss of pedalling up and down the hills. It's an achievement to get up a hill under your own steam, and having electrical assistance wouldn't cut it for me.

I enjoy walking too. Would I want electrically powered shoes?
Mick F. Cornwall

Jdsk
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Re: Effort or Speed?

Postby Jdsk » 27 Jun 2020, 2:02pm

Mick F wrote:The Toyota Hybrids don't have any gearbox, automatic or anything.

Doesn't the current Yaris hybrid have a continuously variable transmission?

Jonathan

stodd
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Re: Effort or Speed?

Postby stodd » 27 Jun 2020, 2:51pm

Mick F wrote:I enjoy walking too. Would I want electrically powered shoes?
I enjoy walking too, and there have been occasions I would definitely have liked electrically powered shoes (or slaves with a sedan chair).

Oldjohnw
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Re: Effort or Speed?

Postby Oldjohnw » 27 Jun 2020, 2:54pm

I enjoy walking too. Would I want electrically powered shoes?


Now there's an idea!
John

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Mick F
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Re: Effort or Speed?

Postby Mick F » 27 Jun 2020, 5:22pm

Jdsk wrote:
Mick F wrote:The Toyota Hybrids don't have any gearbox, automatic or anything.

Doesn't the current Yaris hybrid have a continuously variable transmission?
It's a sort of CVT but not like a normal CVT.
There's some sort of planetary and sun thing in there fed by motors and the engine and all controlled by computer.

The Prius and the Yaris share the same system.
This is worth a read.
http://eahart.com/prius/psd/?utm_source ... ForumLinks

This is way off topic though eh? :D

As for electrically powered shoes, we already have eScooters.
Perhaps I can take the dog for a walk and he could pull me along on a skateboard or roller skates?
(that's me on them, not the dog!)
Mick F. Cornwall

stodd
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Re: Effort or Speed?

Postby stodd » 27 Jun 2020, 5:30pm

I loved the CVT on my '70s Daf (shame the rustproofing was at the same standard of UK cars of the time), but I don't think I want it on my bicycle.