Effort or Speed?

Electrically assisted bikes, trikes, etc.
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Mick F
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Re: Effort or Speed?

Postby Mick F » 5 Aug 2020, 9:18am

reohn2 wrote:
Mick F wrote:............ but for me, it's the hills that make cycling interesting and worthwhile.
eBikes make the world flat.
..................... don't kid yourself in thinking e-bikes make the world flat.They don't.
From what I've seen of them and their riders, "flat" seems about right to me. They whiz up the hills and don't even break into a sweat.

I can't comment on other riders on eBikes somewhere else, but round here, the ones I've seen, what I say is true.
Mick F. Cornwall

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Effort or Speed?

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 5 Aug 2020, 9:40am

Hi,
We seem to be getting away from the effort and concentrating on the speed?
Speed is easy to measure you only need a watch and know the mileage.
Measuring effort is somewhat more difficult and practically the only way of doing it for us this is by using a heart rate monitor and comparing this with your maximum achievable heart rate.
So speed is easy to banter around.
Unless you're measuring effort you don't really have a clue what's going on.
I have to go back and read the OP to be reminded of what question was in the first place?

it must be not forgotten that pedalecs open up cycling to a world of people who would struggle to get anything out of the ride, they can go to places they wouldn't normally be able to get easily, Not all people are unfit simply because they're lazy they might just well have a condition which limits their ability.
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reohn2
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Re: Effort or Speed?

Postby reohn2 » 5 Aug 2020, 9:50am

The thing is e-bikes make life easier for those who either can't manage cycling's challenges or don't want to.They open up the world of cycling for those who never have considered swinging a leg over a bike and for that I'm grateful as they widen cycling's appeal enormously.
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s2vmx
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Re: Effort or Speed?

Postby s2vmx » 27 Aug 2020, 11:59am

I readily agree with Mick F regarding the merits of tackling (struggling) up hills under ones own power, and can understand his point of view, however for many people this is not attainable and so e-bikes fulfil a need.

Speed or Effort though is relative , and probably more down to the limitations of the governing device of the ebike motor.

I'm contemplating the purchase of a Ribble ebike, so that I can tackle hills more than any other reason. I'm unable to get over Parbold hill without my cycle becoming a 'push iron' . I'm not sure if this is due to living in a relatively flat area and mostly cycling along the coast where I don't really encounter hills but regularly do 50 to 60 miles.

The main reason I have not gone down the e-bike road yet , is the sense that I'm 'giving up' and may lose my sense of achievement (limited as it may be).


Do not go gentle in to that good night,
Rage rage against the dying of the light.
(Dylan Thomas)

Stu

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nurgles
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Re: Effort or Speed?

Postby nurgles » 27 Aug 2020, 3:34pm

Like 2vmx I contemplated getting an electric bike for a long time.After visiting the Cycle Show in Birmingham in July 2019 and seeing the latest offerings I have finally and after much procrastination ordered a Ribble.Such is the demand I have to wait until November to get it.

In some respects I agree with Mick F and having lived in Launceston for a number of years know about the hills down there.

However my decision to get one may be different to that of others. Living now in Lincolnshire the hill situation is different to when I was cycling (with the CTC) in the Peak District in the 60s.As a lifelong cyclist I have had almost every type of bike so " trying" an electric bike is the next step from an interest point of view.
But also after a knee replacement pedalling has become so much more difficult physically and psychologically. Although I need a crank shortener now (because I don't have full bend ) and can get up most hills ,I am convinced that my new bike will give me a new lease of life with more determination to keep pedalling.

Jdsk
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Re: Effort or Speed?

Postby Jdsk » 27 Aug 2020, 4:06pm

nurgles wrote:But also after a knee replacement pedalling has become so much more difficult physically and psychologically. Although I need a crank shortener now (because I don't have full bend ) and can get up most hills ,I am convinced that my new bike will give me a new lease of life with more determination to keep pedalling.

Hope so. Looking forward to the update.

Jonathan

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Mick F
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Re: Effort or Speed?

Postby Mick F » 27 Aug 2020, 7:32pm

s2vmx wrote: I'm unable to get over Parbold hill without my cycle becoming a 'push iron' .
Regularly rode over Parbold Hill on my way to Shevington County Secondary School in the 60's from Newburgh. Commuted to school by bike daily.

Last rode up it as late as 2008 towing a trailer having stayed with my sister-in-law in Leyland on my way to Wigan where I spent much of my childhood and was at primary school there. On a Grand Tour then over much of the county, and of all the places from my memory.

Happy days! :D

Parbold Hill is a toughie, as it gets steeper as you go up.
Starts off easily enough as you leave Parbold over the canal, then gets uphill as you pass Lancaster Lane and steeper too as you pass the parish church. There used to be a school just after the church, but that's gone now.

My father's mother and father are buried in Parbold parish church graveyard. Often used to place flowers on the grave.

Back in the old days, the hill was cobbled, and went higher up, but in the late 50s it was tarmacked, and then in the early 60s it was reprofiled to slacken off very the top part of the hill.

Warburtons used to run the cafe at the top and Carol Warburton was a girl in our class at Shevington ........... and by the late 60s and early 70s it became a restaurant called "The Wiggin Tree". Warburtons had long gone by then.
Me and Mrs Mick F had a meal there to celebrate our engagement! :D

Yes, Parbold Hill has many memories.
Mick F. Cornwall

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Mick F
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Re: Effort or Speed?

Postby Mick F » 27 Aug 2020, 7:43pm

The old road used to go off to the right.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.59016 ... 384!8i8192

Who is this?
Not me! :D
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.59065 ... 384!8i8192

Warburtons cafe is a steak house now!
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.59074 ... 384!8i8192

As you come down the hill heading east, you could look across to the north to see the house we used to live in up at Robin Hood before moving to Newburgh.
Can't see it now coz of all the trees!!!!!
Mick F. Cornwall

s2vmx
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Re: Effort or Speed?

Postby s2vmx » 27 Aug 2020, 9:00pm

I went over the hill last wek - there's planning permission being sought for a land fill site with the proposed entrance opposite the Wiggin Tree or whatever its now called - 7 local parish councils are opposed to the planning permission but I expect it'll go through now the Gov are about to deregulate planning.

Its the last bit that gets me, just after the church. Its the breathing rather than the legs, same reason I've never been a great runner even when a young infantry soldier.

Sorry I digress.

With regards e-bike and speed I've come across a lot of scallies around Everton Brow (LIverpool) -charging up the hill on Full out electric bikes that are closer to mopeds than cycles, the new transport of choice for local drugs delivery I suspect.

Stu

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Re: Effort or Speed?

Postby Grandad » 27 Aug 2020, 10:55pm

The main reason I have not gone down the e-bike road yet , is the sense that I'm 'giving up' and may lose my sense of achievement (limited as it may be).

My feelings as well when getting an Orbea Gain for help on some hills. I've countered this by keeping split records of every ride - miles with and without the motor.

There's a case for saying that the non-motor miles are worth more than those done on the pre-motor bikes - they weren't nearly as heavy! These are 90% of my total mileage but it's the other 10% that makes this possible.

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Effort or Speed?

Postby [XAP]Bob » 28 Aug 2020, 12:36pm

Grandad wrote:
The main reason I have not gone down the e-bike road yet , is the sense that I'm 'giving up' and may lose my sense of achievement (limited as it may be).


There's a case for saying that the non-motor miles are worth more than those done on the pre-motor bikes - they weren't nearly as heavy! These are 90% of my total mileage but it's the other 10% that makes this possible.


^ This... it's an enabling device in terms of transport, and potentially in terms of sport. I can see the desire to ride without (in fact I am getting back cycling after a couple of years of very low milage, and doing so without assistance is certainly the way to build up the fitness).
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
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Re: Effort or Speed?

Postby Cyril Haearn » 28 Aug 2020, 3:25pm

One could spend a couple of thousand on an ebike that weighs 10 kg more than a standard cycle
Or spend the same on a cycle without a motor that weighs 10 kg less than a standard cycle

I might be tempted to try the latter if I had trouble getting up the north side of Bwlch-y-Groes

I dislike going fast downhill, a heavy ebike gathers a lot of momentum, another reason to try the latter maybe
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Re: Effort or Speed?

Postby Oldjohnw » 28 Aug 2020, 3:37pm

Cyril Haearn wrote:One could spend a couple of thousand on an ebike that weighs 10 kg more than a standard cycle
Or spend the same on a cycle without a motor that weighs 10 kg less than a standard cycle

I might be tempted to try the latter if I had trouble getting up the north side of Bwlch-y-Groes

I dislike going fast downhill, a heavy ebike gathers a lot of momentum, another reason to try the latter maybe


Doesn't it depend on your reasons for having an ebike? You might try it. Excellent. Others may have different reasons and needs, unknown to you.
John

s2vmx
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Re: Effort or Speed?

Postby s2vmx » 28 Aug 2020, 3:45pm

[quote][/quoteMy feelings as well when getting an Orbea Gain for help on some hills. I've countered this by keeping split records of every ride - miles with and without the motor.

There's a case for saying that the non-motor miles are worth more than those done on the pre-motor bikes - they weren't nearly as heavy! These are 90% of my total mileage but it's the other 10% that makes this possible.


I think thats the way I'll look at it when i eventually take the plunge - the weight difference isn't going to be significant with either a Ribble / Orbea Gain - to my Mountain bike or Surly LHT - I dont expect I'll be using the 'assist' that much on the flat.

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Re: Effort or Speed?

Postby nurgles » 28 Aug 2020, 8:25pm

Don't get hung up on the electric option. My mate in the 60s thought that anyone who didn't ride fixed was a wus.
I am sure when "double clangers" came earlier the same feelings were made.
As life and technology progresses the whole point is to keep doing what you love for as long as possible whatever are your goals.I ride with an 80 year old who admits he wouldn't be riding with us so readily without his electric bike