ebikes on BBC Click

Electrically assisted bikes, trikes, etc.
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philg
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Joined: 7 May 2009, 12:13pm
Location: Porlock, Somerset

Re: ebikes on BBC Click

Postby philg » 16 Jul 2020, 3:09pm

Sweep wrote:
philg wrote:Your wish.... it's rated at 36V 10.4Ah so 374Wh which is small enough, though it does give a good range (30+ miles) even here on Exmoor.


thanks - am rather impressed - that hub looks fine.

And I like the bike it's on.

Battery might be a bit more "out front" for me since I'm a flatbar person.

Yes it is smaller and much quieter than the ones Yosepower supply (Jiabo/Bafang)

He's called Sparky - thanks, it is a very comfortable tourer and great vfm too
I have to say after 20 years of Campag kit, the Shimano shifters were a very pleasant surprise, even the basic Tiagra felt much nicer than the Veloce I'm used to. The mini-Vs also get the thumbs up from me.

The current Swytch batteries being smaller would probably suit you then!

mjr wrote:Is hub drive illegal like stodd says? That's not on https://www.gov.uk/electric-bike-rules or other summaries I've seen.

No not hub drive per se, just that the direct hub drives (as opposed to geared) tend to be at the higher power end - 500/1000W which are illegal, as is the speeds most of them bomb around at (>25 kph)

stodd
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Joined: 6 Jun 2018, 10:24am

Re: ebikes on BBC Click

Postby stodd » 16 Jul 2020, 3:28pm

mjr wrote:Is hub drive illegal like stodd says? That's not on https://www.gov.uk/electric-bike-rules or other summaries I've seen.

Indeed hub drives are most certainly not generally illegal.

However the big direct drive hub kits (often rated 750 or 1000w) are (almost **) illegal, because they exceed the 250w nominal rule.
Most also break the 15.5mph max assisted speed.

eg https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ebike-kit-10 ... SwWtZdssGy

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/28-Front-Whe ... SwcHhdVh9c

(**) not quite illegal, they are legal if
either (a) on road properly registered, taxed and insured with appropriate number plates,
or (b) off road in a place with no public access

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mjr
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Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
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Re: ebikes on BBC Click

Postby mjr » 16 Jul 2020, 5:17pm

Thanks for the clarification both. I get more and more questions about ebikes and I don't have any.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.

Bonzo Banana
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Joined: 5 Feb 2017, 11:58am

Re: ebikes on BBC Click

Postby Bonzo Banana » 16 Jul 2020, 9:02pm

stodd wrote:
mjr wrote:Is hub drive illegal like stodd says? That's not on https://www.gov.uk/electric-bike-rules or other summaries I've seen.

Indeed hub drives are most certainly not generally illegal.

However the big direct drive hub kits (often rated 750 or 1000w) are (almost **) illegal, because they exceed the 250w nominal rule.
Most also break the 15.5mph max assisted speed.

eg https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ebike-kit-10 ... SwWtZdssGy

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/28-Front-Whe ... SwcHhdVh9c

(**) not quite illegal, they are legal if
either (a) on road properly registered, taxed and insured with appropriate number plates,
or (b) off road in a place with no public access


I've got such a motor and it has a 250W legal mode, which has sustained power of about 250W and peak maybe 500-600W. Most ebikes have peak wattage around 400W or more even if sustained is 250W, a grey area if you ask me. Basically the bike is limited to about 16mph in the 250W mode but can get up to close to 30mph in full power mode. I guess the controller is checking wheel rotation speed and adjusting power accordingly and you get a boost in 250W mode for hills. I did think of fitting a hidden switch for a sneaky 1000W mode.

stodd
Posts: 297
Joined: 6 Jun 2018, 10:24am

Re: ebikes on BBC Click

Postby stodd » 16 Jul 2020, 9:51pm

Bonzo Banana wrote:I've got such a motor and it has a 250W legal mode, which has sustained power of about 250W and peak maybe 500-600W. Most ebikes have peak wattage around 400W or more even if sustained is 250W, a grey area if you ask me. Basically the bike is limited to about 16mph in the 250W mode but can get up to close to 30mph in full power mode. I guess the controller is checking wheel rotation speed and adjusting power accordingly and you get a boost in 250W mode for hills. I did think of fitting a hidden switch for a sneaky 1000W mode.

Definitely some quite big grey areas there as you say. Lots of the so-called 250w motors have much more then the 400w you mention; up to around 750w and a few even more. Sometimes the exact same motor is sold stamped 250w in UK and 350w in US.

Generally a dual mode bike is illegal to use even when switched to a low mode that would otherwise be legal. But the definition of 'switch' is another grey area.

There are very few instances of any convictions for braking these laws, even in some quite blatant cases of abuse. However, it is a risk (especially if you have an accident in which case they might look a bit deeper) as you can be charged for driving an unregistered motor vehicle, driving without tax and driving without insurance.

morzov
Posts: 238
Joined: 17 Jun 2007, 10:54pm

Re: ebikes on BBC Click

Postby morzov » 17 Jul 2020, 12:51pm

I have bought a Swytch bike kit - the 35 KM Eco kit as a birthday present for my brother - he is fine on the flat but struggles on hills and also has a bike that he is very comfortable with and would not want to change. So from that point of view this kit seemed to fit the bill.

Paid for it beginning Oct 2019 and was due for delivery March 2020.

Fair enough that there were delays due to Covid 19 but Swytch changed from delivery dates to shipping dates and quite a few of those proved overly optimistic. Anyway it is now apparently on the proverbial slow boat from China and is due to land in the UK 21 July. Not sure how long after that before I will get delivery but guessing early August.

In terms of cost the original kit at apparent discount price was USD 394 (all payments have been USD) plus USD 25 delivery. On top of that I've just had to pay USD 105 for import duty and VAT ( that was stated at the time of purchase but I'd forgotten about it!)

All in all with the Non sterling transaction fees charged by my credit card it is going to come in at around £440 total.

Anyway I'll trial fit it to a flat bar Dawes Galaxy I have and see how it goes.

Cowsham
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Joined: 4 Nov 2019, 1:33pm

Re: ebikes on BBC Click

Postby Cowsham » 18 Jul 2020, 9:06pm

morzov wrote:I have bought a Swytch bike kit - the 35 KM Eco kit as a birthday present for my brother - he is fine on the flat but struggles on hills and also has a bike that he is very comfortable with and would not want to change. So from that point of view this kit seemed to fit the bill.

Paid for it beginning Oct 2019 and was due for delivery March 2020.

Fair enough that there were delays due to Covid 19 but Swytch changed from delivery dates to shipping dates and quite a few of those proved overly optimistic. Anyway it is now apparently on the proverbial slow boat from China and is due to land in the UK 21 July. Not sure how long after that before I will get delivery but guessing early August.

In terms of cost the original kit at apparent discount price was USD 394 (all payments have been USD) plus USD 25 delivery. On top of that I've just had to pay USD 105 for import duty and VAT ( that was stated at the time of purchase but I'd forgotten about it!)

All in all with the Non sterling transaction fees charged by my credit card it is going to come in at around £440 total.

Anyway I'll trial fit it to a flat bar Dawes Galaxy I have and see how it goes.



Fer ***** sake ! That's messing you around big time --- I'm going to do one for my brother too but I'll pick bafang or similar for his -- might buy all the bits separate or kit but I'm going to do all the research now so by the time I'll need the stuff there'll be a predictable over supply into the market where I'll be waiting to mop up the bargains.

morzov
Posts: 238
Joined: 17 Jun 2007, 10:54pm

Re: ebikes on BBC Click

Postby morzov » 5 Aug 2020, 8:11pm

My Swytch kit turned up today. Looks neat enough but a little too late so up for sale on this site.

Cowsham
Posts: 550
Joined: 4 Nov 2019, 1:33pm

Re: ebikes on BBC Click

Postby Cowsham » 6 Aug 2020, 2:04am

morzov wrote:My Swytch kit turned up today. Looks neat enough but a little too late so up for sale on this site.


Did you end up getting him something else?

morzov
Posts: 238
Joined: 17 Jun 2007, 10:54pm

Re: ebikes on BBC Click

Postby morzov » 6 Aug 2020, 1:43pm

No

Bonzo Banana
Posts: 63
Joined: 5 Feb 2017, 11:58am

Re: ebikes on BBC Click

Postby Bonzo Banana » 8 Aug 2020, 10:42pm

stodd wrote:
Bonzo Banana wrote:I've got such a motor and it has a 250W legal mode, which has sustained power of about 250W and peak maybe 500-600W. Most ebikes have peak wattage around 400W or more even if sustained is 250W, a grey area if you ask me. Basically the bike is limited to about 16mph in the 250W mode but can get up to close to 30mph in full power mode. I guess the controller is checking wheel rotation speed and adjusting power accordingly and you get a boost in 250W mode for hills. I did think of fitting a hidden switch for a sneaky 1000W mode.

Definitely some quite big grey areas there as you say. Lots of the so-called 250w motors have much more then the 400w you mention; up to around 750w and a few even more. Sometimes the exact same motor is sold stamped 250w in UK and 350w in US.

Generally a dual mode bike is illegal to use even when switched to a low mode that would otherwise be legal. But the definition of 'switch' is another grey area.

There are very few instances of any convictions for braking these laws, even in some quite blatant cases of abuse. However, it is a risk (especially if you have an accident in which case they might look a bit deeper) as you can be charged for driving an unregistered motor vehicle, driving without tax and driving without insurance.


I'm keeping mine to set to 250W mode and my battery is only 48V 12.5A with a peak current of 20A which it can hold for about 60-90 seconds. In 250W mode its about 6A and you get a 50% boost in full mode to about 9A. The peak current in 250W mode is about 600W and in full mode about 900W. In 250W mode I guess it may sneak up to 300W and in full mode 450W. Obviously if you pair it with a much better battery that full mode goes up considerably, such batteries can probably run the motor at a full 1000W no issues and peak over 2000W but I bought the bike with the intention of keeping it street legal so ridiculously powerful batteries would be pointless except for extending range.The same direct drive motor as mine is sold as 500W, 750W, 1000W, 1500W and 2000W I think with only the controller box changing between the models.