Petition to increase the 25kmh limit on electric bikes in the UK.

Electrically assisted bikes, trikes, etc.
francovendee
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Re: Petition to increase the 25kmh limit on electric bikes in the UK.

Postby francovendee » 29 Aug 2020, 4:17pm

Interesting thread but I won't be signing.
If under the control of a seasoned cyclist (read: cycle commuter) then increasing the limit would be acceptable.
As there is no proof of competency required to ride a bicycle, then a faster ebike it does come with additional risks if the extra speed is used in the wrong place.
I can't see raising the speed restriction attracting many 40 mile round trip commuters turning to ebikes as a means of getting to work.
Neither can I see commuters now using ebikes giving up because of the current speed restriction.

I'm getting to the stage in life when some form of assistance is becoming more appealing and the present speed restrictions wouldn't pose a problem, in fact it would be an improvement on my current speeds. :oops:

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al_yrpal
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Re: Petition to increase the 25kmh limit on electric bikes in the UK.

Postby al_yrpal » 29 Aug 2020, 5:39pm

I wont be signing, increased assisted speed holds no attraction for me. At the moment riding on the flat I often find that assistance isnt there because I am exceeding 15.5 mph anyway. The thought of a few idiots riding around at an increased assisted speed is unwelcome. The current regs on Ebikes seem quite sensible.

Al
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Cyril Haearn
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Re: Petition to increase the 25kmh limit on electric bikes in the UK.

Postby Cyril Haearn » 6 Nov 2020, 4:17pm

Thread resurrection alert

In NL there are plans to automatically cut the motors of €bikes in urban areas after lots of fatal 'accidents'

Apparently power might not be cut off in "bad" weather or cycling into the wind. One hopes it could also switch off the phone when one gets on the €bike

Seems a bit 1984, +1!

Perhaps there could be a minimum age too (75?), or requirements on BMI and strength, one would have to prove one is quite weak
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Jdsk
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Re: Petition to increase the 25kmh limit on electric bikes in the UK.

Postby Jdsk » 6 Nov 2020, 4:35pm

Probably this:
"Dutch government pilots technology to reduce road fatalities for electric bikes"
https://eminetra.co.uk/dutch-government ... ews/83081/

I can't tell if it refers to what we call eBikes or only to S-Pedelecs.

Jonathan

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DaveP
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Re: Petition to increase the 25kmh limit on electric bikes in the UK.

Postby DaveP » 7 Nov 2020, 8:17pm

Cyril Haearn wrote:In NL there are plans to automatically cut the motors of €bikes in urban areas after lots of fatal 'accidents'

Well this is the UK, and we've been trialling e scooter rentals this summer. I know there is an element of irrationality in permitting a novice to take his first jaunt in an overcrowded city centre while denying those who own one (and presumably have some sort of facility with it) the chance to ride, and not surprisingly there have been significant scrote related problems - Coventry I believe has cancelled / postponed their trial, Birmingham has halved the trial fleet and the local magnet fishers have been recruited to extract the daily crop drom the cities waterways. And of course these rental escoot ers are both limited and geographically restricted.
Currrently pedelecs don't seem to be generating this sort of problem, and I hope that doesn't change, because I'm planning to join the club 8)
Faster e bikes? Well I don't mind those either - just so long as the users have trained, passed something not dissimilar to a motorbike test and purchased public liability insurance, and as long as the bikes themselves are regulated, regularly examined and equipped with a full lighting set and registration plates - because they will be, after all, the mopeds of tomorrow.
I wouldn't insist on Vehicle Excise duty :D but allowing people to fly around at traffic speeds, in silence and anonymity with nothing in place to encourage a responsible attitude would be sheer folly. As the e scooter experiment is suggesting.
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Re: Petition to increase the 25kmh limit on electric bikes in the UK.

Postby kwackers » 7 Nov 2020, 8:45pm

DaveP wrote:but allowing people to fly around at traffic speeds, in silence and anonymity with nothing in place to encourage a responsible attitude would

Sums up a lot of cyclists.

So compulsory insurance, testing, MOT's and registration plates for all cyclists.
I'm OK with that.

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Re: Petition to increase the 25kmh limit on electric bikes in the UK.

Postby Cyril Haearn » 7 Nov 2020, 10:35pm

Speed kills
Anything increasing speed is madness
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Re: Petition to increase the 25kmh limit on electric bikes in the UK.

Postby kwackers » 8 Nov 2020, 9:43am

Cyril Haearn wrote:Speed kills
Anything increasing speed is madness

Exactly, and yet here I am passing folk on pedelecs on an ordinary bike! Using my fitness to endanger life.
When will the madness end!?

Hundreds of innocent people killed every year by reckless cyclists...

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Re: Petition to increase the 25kmh limit on electric bikes in the UK.

Postby Cyril Haearn » 8 Nov 2020, 9:51am

kwackers wrote:
Cyril Haearn wrote:Speed kills
Anything increasing speed is madness

Exactly, and yet here I am passing folk on pedelecs on an ordinary bike! Using my fitness to endanger life.
When will the madness end!?

Hundreds of innocent people killed every year by reckless cyclists...

I do see a lot of €bike riders going slowly, maybe they just had too much cash, bought the machines unnecessarily, or the batteries are exhausted. Again

Could even be that €bikes are so heavy, they cannae go fast even with power, minusplus
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Psamathe
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Re: Petition to increase the 25kmh limit on electric bikes in the UK.

Postby Psamathe » 8 Nov 2020, 10:12am

Cyril Haearn wrote:Speed kills
Anything increasing speed is madness

I suspect people don't often ask themselves why they want to travel faster the whole time. When I used to commute my drive work to home was 25 miles much on a quiet dual carriageway and I used to drive home at 50 mph I'd reflect that if I sped-up to 60 mph I'd get home only a few minutes earlier and are those few minutes really worth the extra cost in petrol, etc. Are a few minutes a day really that crucial (crucial enough to accept increased risks to themselves and others?

So I wonder if the question about "should E-bikes be allowed to go faster?" should really be "why do people on E-bikes need to go faster?". Maybe we need to answer the "Why" before considering "Allow"

Ian

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Re: Petition to increase the 25kmh limit on electric bikes in the UK.

Postby kwackers » 8 Nov 2020, 10:18am

Psamathe wrote:I suspect people don't often ask themselves why they want to travel faster the whole time. When I used to commute my drive work to home was 25 miles much on a quiet dual carriageway and I used to drive home at 50 mph I'd reflect that if I sped-up to 60 mph I'd get home only a few minutes earlier and are those few minutes really worth the extra cost in petrol, etc. Are a few minutes a day really that crucial (crucial enough to accept increased risks to themselves and others?

So I wonder if the question about "should E-bikes be allowed to go faster?" should really be "why do people on E-bikes need to go faster?". Maybe we need to answer the "Why" before considering "Allow"

Ian

There's a huge difference between driving at 50 or 60 since in both cases your average time is mainly affected by other traffic.

On a bicycle that's not the case, if you travel 10% faster you pretty much get there 10% quicker.
As someone who commuted over 40 miles a day by bicycle I can absolutely assert that to be true.

The other issue is that everything is a balancing act. Why cycle if you can drive? Or take the train/bus etc.

There has to be a reason and everything you do to reduce the benefit of any particular mode simply means that less people will use it.
It's not a difficult concept, you add up the pros and the cons of any change and so far it appears the cons are simply peoples prejudices rather than any firm evidence.

Simply decide how you want the future to look and make that happen by encouraging it.
Easy peasy.

stodd
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Re: Petition to increase the 25kmh limit on electric bikes in the UK.

Postby stodd » 8 Nov 2020, 10:21am

I think recent experience in Holland shows why allowing higher speeds without associated regulation is not a good idea.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... oad-deaths

As I have heard it the problem mainly came about because of allowing higher speeds.
https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/thread ... ost-587961

kwackers
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Re: Petition to increase the 25kmh limit on electric bikes in the UK.

Postby kwackers » 8 Nov 2020, 10:41am

stodd wrote:I think recent experience in Holland shows why allowing higher speeds without associated regulation is not a good idea.

Exactly you go faster so it's more dangerous - but how much more dangerous?
Is the danger to the primary user? If so why aren't they allowed to make their own choice?
Does it outweigh the benefits?

These are choices we make every day, more cars means more deaths etc etc.
Suppose it turns out the increase in pedelecs and the increase in deaths is more than compensated for by a fall in deaths by motor vehicle?

It's easy to cherry pick stuff out and assume it's the whole story.

Jdsk
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Re: Petition to increase the 25kmh limit on electric bikes in the UK.

Postby Jdsk » 8 Nov 2020, 11:22am

kwackers wrote:The other issue is that everything is a balancing act. Why cycle if you can drive? Or take the train/bus etc.

There has to be a reason and everything you do to reduce the benefit of any particular mode simply means that less people will use it.
It's not a difficult concept, you add up the pros and the cons of any change and so far it appears the cons are simply peoples prejudices rather than any firm evidence.

Simply decide how you want the future to look and make that happen by encouraging it.
Easy peasy.

Exactly. And one of the best counters to the single issue fanaticism and whataboutery that are unfortunately so common in this forum is quantitative option appraisal.

Psamathe wrote:I suspect people don't often ask themselves why they want to travel faster the whole time. When I used to commute my drive work to home was 25 miles much on a quiet dual carriageway and I used to drive home at 50 mph I'd reflect that if I sped-up to 60 mph I'd get home only a few minutes earlier and are those few minutes really worth the extra cost in petrol, etc. Are a few minutes a day really that crucial (crucial enough to accept increased risks to themselves and others?

Excellent point. And I suspect that more people will come to think that way that way in car-like EVs... range anxiety and awareness, the different shape of the power curve, a lot more drive-by-wire...

Jonathan

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Re: Petition to increase the 25kmh limit on electric bikes in the UK.

Postby Nigel » 8 Nov 2020, 3:03pm

kwackers wrote:
DaveP wrote:but allowing people to fly around at traffic speeds, in silence and anonymity with nothing in place to encourage a responsible attitude would

Sums up a lot of cyclists.

So compulsory insurance, testing, MOT's and registration plates for all cyclists.
I'm OK with that.


Selective quoting, again. <SNIP - unnecessary>

DaveP made it clear he was talking about Speed Pedal Electrics; ie. those capable of about 28mph under power.




- Nigel