Petition to increase the 25kmh limit on electric bikes in the UK.

Electrically assisted bikes, trikes, etc.
kwackers
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Location: Warrington

Re: Petition to increase the 25kmh limit on electric bikes in the UK.

Postby kwackers » 25 Aug 2020, 2:54pm

hamish wrote:Firstly, in my opinion, telling people that they aren't progressive, etc just because you don't agree with them isn't the most productive way of debating the issue. Your experience of the issue may vary significantly from others and they may see your in instance on the deregulation of ebikes as counterproductive in terms of progressive transport policy.

Nothing to do with not agreeing with them, merely observation of this forum for the many years I've been a member.
*ANY* attempt at change is met with resistance.
The ebike thread a few years ago was a good example and yet now quite a few folk on here seem to have one.
You can pick almost any change and unless it's simplistic and unrealistic then you can expect a lot of resistance.

hamish wrote:A legal 250W ebike motor can peak at significantly more than the nominal average 250. My cargo bike would continue on well into 25mph territory without a cut off. I know that because I can pedal it up to 20 + mph with ease in the flat. Give it the 350% assist and it would fly.

350% assist - 1KW?
Or am I missing something? Mine struggles "under it's own power" to get to 20mph with the cutoff disabled.

hamish wrote:The argument about cut off above 15.5 doesn't convince me either as the cutoff is soft, with the assist facing out gradually .

I don't really see how you can claim that.
At what speed does your cutoff start?
10mph?
Realistically the cutoff will start at very close to the max it has and at best it might continue slightly over. A couple of mph at best *unless* it begins much earlier - but what would be the point of an ebike that starts reducing power almost as soon as it was rolling?
That said it would be nice round curve.

I regularly take my bike over 20mph using my legs, up to 15mph the combination of me and it accelerate it very nicely and then suddenly it weighs a ton. Happens easily within 1 or 2 mph.

hamish wrote:I feel that, on our current infrastructure, allowing fast ebikes on the cycle paths would put as many people off as it encourages.

Not long ago the common opinion on here was that allowing ebikes on cycle paths would do exactly the same. Did it? Have ebikes put people off?
If that wasn't true then why should the same assertion be true now?

Anyway like I said, "lack of imagination".
Instead of thinking of reasons as to why it can't happen, try imagining ways that it can.
That's what progressive means. Ignore conservatism and look for a way forward.

hamish
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Joined: 5 Mar 2008, 11:29pm

Re: Petition to increase the 25kmh limit on electric bikes in the UK.

Postby hamish » 25 Aug 2020, 3:53pm

My ebike starts to cut out at 15.5 and fades out by 17 mph. You can feel it happening and it does not fall off a cliff. It also has a speedo so you can see what's going on.

The percentage assist is the amount by which the motor matches your input. The nominal maximum sustained assistance is 250w. I don't know what my own input is. All I know is that I am a fairly strong cyclist for a average mid 50s bloke and the bike gives me loads of extra push. It accelerates briskly to cruising speed and if I go for it it I can make it shift over a longish ride into town. It has a Bosch performance line motor.

I bought the bike to eat into car use not replace my recreational cycling. It will undoubtedly eat into my utility cycling miles too but any non utility ride is done on my other bikes.

I can use my imagination and I can imagine that if ebikes are derestricted, the cycle paths would be awful. I can also imagine infrastructure being built for fast ebikes like it is elsewhere.

Many countries have a bigger modal share for cyclists without deregulation. My brother used to live in Hamburg. They had cycle path speed limits there with enforcement campaigns from time to time....

hamish
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Re: Petition to increase the 25kmh limit on electric bikes in the UK.

Postby hamish » 25 Aug 2020, 3:55pm

Not long ago the common opinion on here was that allowing ebikes on cycle paths would do exactly the same. Did it? Have ebikes put people off?
If that wasn't true then why should the same assertion be true now


No. Why? Because they are restricted and mix well with other bikes.

arnsider
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Joined: 27 Jul 2011, 12:44am

Re: Petition to increase the 25kmh limit on electric bikes in the UK.

Postby arnsider » 25 Aug 2020, 4:27pm

I just happened on this and here's my threepence worth!
It's utter rubbish to try to justify any increase in e bike speeds.
What for??????
The whole idea of a motor is to help out on gradients NOT TO SPEED THE RIDER BETWEEN POINT A and B.
If you want that, for heavens sake buy a moped or a scooter.
The argument is a waste of words.
i am more than happy with my 40 NM assist bike.

Oldjohnw
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Location: Northumberland

Re: Petition to increase the 25kmh limit on electric bikes in the UK.

Postby Oldjohnw » 25 Aug 2020, 5:06pm

I always felt that the level of performance you get with an ebike is to enable the rider to be more or less on equal terms with the average cyclist, not to produce an entirely different machine. Seems to work pretty well.
John

kwackers
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Location: Warrington

Re: Petition to increase the 25kmh limit on electric bikes in the UK.

Postby kwackers » 25 Aug 2020, 6:02pm

arnsider wrote:The whole idea of a motor is to help out on gradients NOT TO SPEED THE RIDER BETWEEN POINT A and B.

What utter nonsense.
Where does it say that?

What an ebike does depends on the user.
I used it to make a 42 mile commute doable in a realistic time and without knackering myself in.
Very few gradients on that journey are you claiming I should have been using one?

kwackers
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Location: Warrington

Re: Petition to increase the 25kmh limit on electric bikes in the UK.

Postby kwackers » 25 Aug 2020, 6:03pm

Oldjohnw wrote:I always felt that the level of performance you get with an ebike is to enable the rider to be more or less on equal terms with the average cyclist, not to produce an entirely different machine. Seems to work pretty well.

So ebikes are only for below average riders?
Because an average rider on an ebike would by definition be better than average.

Oldjohnw
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Re: Petition to increase the 25kmh limit on electric bikes in the UK.

Postby Oldjohnw » 25 Aug 2020, 6:07pm

kwackers wrote:
Oldjohnw wrote:I always felt that the level of performance you get with an ebike is to enable the rider to be more or less on equal terms with the average cyclist, not to produce an entirely different machine. Seems to work pretty well.

So ebikes are only for below average riders?
Because an average rider on an ebike would by definition be better than average.


That's exactly who i thought they were for. People like me who can no longer keep the pedals going round.
John

kwackers
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Re: Petition to increase the 25kmh limit on electric bikes in the UK.

Postby kwackers » 25 Aug 2020, 6:13pm

hamish wrote:My ebike starts to cut out at 15.5 and fades out by 17 mph. You can feel it happening and it does not fall off a cliff. It also has a speedo so you can see what's going on.

1.5mph difference?

I rely on that acceleration to get me through junctions without gaps opening up that the idiot behind might be tempted to risk all to get in front of me, or overtaking slow moving traffic.
To do this I put a fair bit of effort into pulling off and getting going, even towards 15mph an extra 1.5mph is gained in no more than a second. To go from "full" acceleration to (I guess) half power in less than a second definitely feels like falling off a cliff.

kwackers
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Re: Petition to increase the 25kmh limit on electric bikes in the UK.

Postby kwackers » 25 Aug 2020, 6:14pm

Oldjohnw wrote:
kwackers wrote:
Oldjohnw wrote:I always felt that the level of performance you get with an ebike is to enable the rider to be more or less on equal terms with the average cyclist, not to produce an entirely different machine. Seems to work pretty well.

So ebikes are only for below average riders?
Because an average rider on an ebike would by definition be better than average.


That's exactly who i thought they were for. People like me who can no longer keep the pedals going round.

Apologies then.
When I bought the bits to make mine nobody pointed out I shouldn't be riding one.

If it's any consolation as I pointed out earlier I'll now be using a car instead.

Oldjohnw
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Re: Petition to increase the 25kmh limit on electric bikes in the UK.

Postby Oldjohnw » 25 Aug 2020, 6:15pm

I don't think that there is anyone who should or shouldn't be riding one. But that is not the same as saying that the speed limit should be removed.
Last edited by Oldjohnw on 25 Aug 2020, 7:52pm, edited 1 time in total.
John

kwackers
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Re: Petition to increase the 25kmh limit on electric bikes in the UK.

Postby kwackers » 25 Aug 2020, 6:28pm

Oldjohnw wrote:I don't think that there is any I who should or shouldn't be riding one. But that is not the same as saying that the speed limit should be removed.

You and me have completely different use cases for ebikes.

When you're dodging rush hour traffic on dual carriageways and in town centres you might have a different perspective on what's required.

Oldjohnw
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Location: Northumberland

Re: Petition to increase the 25kmh limit on electric bikes in the UK.

Postby Oldjohnw » 25 Aug 2020, 6:44pm

kwackers wrote:
Oldjohnw wrote:I don't think that there is any I who should or shouldn't be riding one. But that is not the same as saying that the speed limit should be removed.

You and me have completely different use cases for ebikes.

When you're dodging rush hour traffic on dual carriageways and in town centres you might have a different perspective on what's required.


You misread me. You or anyone can use an ebike as much as you want and for whatever you want. It is none of my business. But this thread is asking us to sign a particular petition. I won't because i disagree with it. Nothing controversial there.
John

webber
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Re: Petition to increase the 25kmh limit on electric bikes in the UK.

Postby webber » 25 Aug 2020, 7:13pm

Here’s my 2p worth I’ve just got an ebike (for commuting shopping etc) and I’m quite impressed
The best way to use it is to say just below 15 mph on hills and benefit from the motor the rest of the time I just ride it like a normal bike if want to go faster I go faster the best thing about the motor is it gets you on top of the gear so it is easy enough to go at your own pace and save the battery
I think it is perfect as is and won’t be signing if you want more motor get a motorbike

hamish
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Re: Petition to increase the 25kmh limit on electric bikes in the UK.

Postby hamish » 25 Aug 2020, 7:31pm

kwackers wrote:
Oldjohnw wrote:I don't think that there is any I who should or shouldn't be riding one. But that is not the same as saying that the speed limit should be removed.

You and me have completely different use cases for ebikes.

When you're dodging rush hour traffic on dual carriageways and in town centres you might have a different perspective on what's required.


I think this is the issue. You want more speed for the cut and thrust of the road. Many people say they don't want more speed on the mixed use paths.

I don't care a damn how fast they go on the road. But if you derestrict them they will go on the paths and they won't mix well with the normal bikes. That, in my view, is a problem.