Derestricting motor to 500w - will I notice much difference?

Electrically assisted bikes, trikes, etc.
hemo
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Re: Derestricting motor to 500w - will I notice much difference?

Postby hemo » 27 Sep 2020, 11:26am

Bikes pre 2016 can have a legal throttle.

ndwgolf
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Re: Derestricting motor to 500w - will I notice much difference?

Postby ndwgolf » 11 Jan 2021, 11:19pm

Has anyone got the ball park distance numbers for 250, 500 and 1000 W motors with a 48a 15ah battery
I’m looking for a set up that can give me 40 miles on a single charge
Neil

kwackers
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Re: Derestricting motor to 500w - will I notice much difference?

Postby kwackers » 12 Jan 2021, 10:20am

Oldjohnw wrote:
roubaixtuesday wrote:OK, so this may sound harsh.

But stop being selfish and just comply with the law.


Agree. No wonder ebikes get a bad name.

Is it any worse than the bad name cyclists already have?
I can't help but think their "bad name" is less a genuine bad name and more that some cyclists simply don't like them.
I think the idea that ebikes are really motorbikes at worst and cheating at best is fairly deeply rooted for quite a few cyclists... ;)

kwackers
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Re: Derestricting motor to 500w - will I notice much difference?

Postby kwackers » 12 Jan 2021, 10:23am

mjr wrote:
mercalia wrote:Easly this week there was an acident near Sainsburys Streatham Common of an ebike rider who took his chances beause he was powered.

How is this relevant? Was it derestricted or fitted with a throttle?

It isn't.

No shortage of cyclists involved in accidents because they 'took their chance' but being powered is a godsend for the anti-ebike brigade.

hemo
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Re: Derestricting motor to 500w - will I notice much difference?

Postby hemo » 12 Jan 2021, 11:48pm

ndwgolf wrote:Has anyone got the ball park distance numbers for 250, 500 and 1000 W motors with a 48a 15ah battery
I’m looking for a set up that can give me 40 miles on a single charge
Neil


250w = 720wh and approx 630w max peak power at 17a. Dependant on bike system used, speed, terrain, wind & rider weight 40 - 70 miles if weighing less then 80kg using low power of assistance. Rider fitness plays a big part, a fit rider should be able to push above the cut off speed thus increasing range.

500w a bit less with approx 820w max peak power 22a, though it will operate pretty much as well at 17a so would be not a lot different to 250w.

1kw will likely be about 30 miles with a poss 1200w max peak power at 30a

250w & 500w will both work at about the same current draw of about 15 - 20a from the controller, it just depends on the assist level and power used.
Another factor that will change figures is the motor type used, geared hub or D/D hub, mid drive TS pas or cadence pas ?

The 1kw will be gutless using the same current draw, ideally needs about 30a from the controller and a battery spec'd to deliver said power with head room on current draw.

Antbrewer
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Re: Derestricting motor to 500w - will I notice much difference?

Postby Antbrewer » 13 Jan 2021, 1:20pm

To quote Rob Archer ( original poster of this thread)
quote ''In fact, I would estimate that at least half the e-bikes on the road are illegal in some way or other! '' unquote.

That is a very bold statement to make and I would be very surprised if it were anywhere near to the truth. There are some odd inconsistencies in his questions and statements. ''Legal and illegal, Not using it on the road but very good on the roundabouts'' etc etc.
Here's a thought Rob
Why not use the ebike ( the legal version) to help you get out there cycling with the enjoyment of that to help in the recovering of your major heart attack. When you run out of 'oomph' perhaps take it slower or walk. Many ebikes have a 'walk mode' which aids walking with bike.
You can do all this without breaking the law. Call me old fashioned which I am not, but to post such thoughts and suggestions about breaking the law on a public forum is to my mind quite barmy.
I have an ebike and also asthma. I run out of oomph quite often so I then take it very slowly. I agree the motor is certainly very useful roundabouts and crossroads.

Just noticed the word 'oomph another way of ''naught miles per hour'' How true!

Jdsk
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Re: Derestricting motor to 500w - will I notice much difference?

Postby Jdsk » 13 Jan 2021, 1:27pm

Antbrewer wrote:Just noticed the word 'oomph another way of ''naught miles per hour'' How true!

: - )

Jonathan

Marc
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Re: Derestricting motor to 500w - will I notice much difference?

Postby Marc » 14 Jan 2021, 6:52am

ndwgolf wrote:Has anyone got the ball park distance numbers for 250, 500 and 1000 W motors with a 48a 15ah battery
I’m looking for a set up that can give me 40 miles on a single charge
Neil

Since there are few differences in efficiency between "250W", "500W" or "1000W" motors (provided you ride at 25km/h and don't tackle steep hills), the range with a given battery is the same.

Check-out the Grin Tech Ebike Motor Simulator: https://ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html
That simulator is based on actual testing of the listed motors and will give you a close approximation of the battery range you can expect.

And here is an explanation why ebike motor power ratings are hogwash in most cases: https://ebikes.ca/learn/power-ratings.html


hemo
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Re: Derestricting motor to 500w - will I notice much difference?

Postby hemo » 15 Jan 2021, 9:16pm

1KW drive will be inefficient using the same 12 -15a that a 250w would use, the 1kw would be gutless and very inefficient.
If they would be the same then there would be no need to supply the 1kw with 25 - 35a controllers.

Graphs don't beat real world use of drives on real world terrain.

leftpoole
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Re: Derestricting motor to 500w - will I notice much difference?

Postby leftpoole » 18 Jan 2021, 11:45am

One of my neighbours has one of these things. He has it derestricted. He overtook me in my car a while back. I was travelling at 30 mph. He went past and waved!
When spoken to (by myself) he bragged about how he paid £400 for the bike and uses it daily. It (the bike) has a twist grip throttle.
I hope that he and anyone else with or doing or thinking about the same, get caught and prosecuted.

As a matter of interest as someone who loves cycling but has the unfortunate disabling ill health, I would benefit from an 'E bike', but I absolutely never will use ride or even look at one. I despise completely these things. If I wanted assistance I would simply buy a the very least, a moped or most like as I like them, a proper motorcycle. Something like a Triumph.

John

kwackers
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Re: Derestricting motor to 500w - will I notice much difference?

Postby kwackers » 18 Jan 2021, 2:34pm

leftpoole wrote:but I absolutely never will use ride or even look at one. I despise completely these things. If I wanted assistance I would simply buy a the very least, a moped or most like as I like them, a proper motorcycle. Something like a Triumph.

Thanks for demonstrating what I said further up thread.
The real issue with ebikes isn't the general public, it's other cyclists.

kwackers wrote:I think the idea that ebikes are really motorbikes at worst and cheating at best is fairly deeply rooted for quite a few cyclists... ;)

Antbrewer
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Re: Derestricting motor to 500w - will I notice much difference?

Postby Antbrewer » 18 Jan 2021, 5:12pm

Hello Leftpoole
John I am totally mystified by your very strong words on the subject of Ebikes. Do you cycle at present I wonder? You say you have disabling ill health , does this prohibit you cycling at all?
Please discount your stupid neighbour and the way he acts on his bike and just appreciate the benefits that legal ebikes bring to thousands of law abiding cyclists many with health issues like myself. I haven't long returned with my wife from our near daily ride both on ebikes. Normal cycling and just engage the motor if the incline is too much and this ensures we enjoy our passion with total control.

There are some folk out there and a few on this forum too who for reasons beyond me seem to want to stop people such as myself (with asthma in my case) from continuing to cycle in the fresh air with all the obvious benefits of this wonderful activity. Why?
A little parallel I used to someone who called me a cheat last year on the subject of Ebikes...I asked him if when he wanted to make a cup of tea did he first collect some wood and then light a fire and boil a pan of water etc etc. Sounds a silly comment I know but to me that makes the point.

hemo
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Re: Derestricting motor to 500w - will I notice much difference?

Postby hemo » 18 Jan 2021, 10:13pm

Like you antbrewer ebikes allow me to ride due to asthma, my asthma is exertion induced so a push bike nearly kills me at times.
I didn't realise I had asthma until in my late 20's, though up until them from my teens thought it was just due to fitness.

Know one should criticise or make unfounded remarks about someone's choice without knowing all the facts, the neighbour in the case iis just clearly being a law breaker so all uses shouldn't be tarred the same way.

leftpoole
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Re: Derestricting motor to 500w - will I notice much difference?

Postby leftpoole » 20 Jan 2021, 12:54pm

Antbrewer wrote:Hello Leftpoole
John I am totally mystified by your very strong words on the subject of Ebikes. Do you cycle at present I wonder? You say you have disabling ill health , does this prohibit you cycling at all?
Please discount your stupid neighbour and the way he acts on his bike and just appreciate the benefits that legal ebikes bring to thousands of law abiding cyclists many with health issues like myself. I haven't long returned with my wife from our near daily ride both on ebikes. Normal cycling and just engage the motor if the incline is too much and this ensures we enjoy our passion with total control.

There are some folk out there and a few on this forum too who for reasons beyond me seem to want to stop people such as myself (with asthma in my case) from continuing to cycle in the fresh air with all the obvious benefits of this wonderful activity. Why?
A little parallel I used to someone who called me a cheat last year on the subject of Ebikes...I asked him if when he wanted to make a cup of tea did he first collect some wood and then light a fire and boil a pan of water etc etc. Sounds a silly comment I know but to me that makes the point.


Hello,
Firstly thank you for taking the time comment your obviously thoughtful words.
Regarding my health. I have a number of disabilities including Heart, Spine and Arthritis. I also most unfortunately suffer exercise induced Asthma! It is all a burden. But I do cycle unfortunately a great deal less than I once did.

Now to put my despair regarding these E-Bikes. In my opinion as a mostly lifelong cyclist I believe that if cycling is no longer possible due to ill health/disability then whatever you do is your choice. In my opinion an E-bike is no longer cycling. It is motor assisted. The bike should be insured and taxed as a moped of sorts. When I was a small boy, my elder brother had one of those bicycles with a small petrol motor which if I recall correctly, was attached into the rear wheel. No longer a bicycle.
The way forward for transport is not in my opinion and knowledge, electric, but Hydrogen. The stuff used for the batteries on E-bikes and cars is disgusting and the way it is mined is not, I fear very ecological. Not cyclist friendly in the slightest.
But, my main rejection of these things, is that they are 'mostly' from what I see, ridden by 'non cycling' riders who have no idea how to behave. No idea how to be a 'cyclist' and behave as if they are indeed, riding some type of moped.
I will never no matter what befalls me ever consider let alone ride, an E-bike!
When the day comes that I cannot pedal far enough to be a cyclist, I will buy a motorcycle. I started my 'adult' life with large motorcycles. Hence the spine damage.
Sorry about the way I feel but that is the way it is.
Thank you again for your very kind thoughts.
John
PS:- As a matter of interest, I spent many years as a qualified Driving Instructor teaching people how to drive and behave on the road. I explained to every pupil over the years, how to treat cyclists.