Derestricting motor to 500w - will I notice much difference?

Electrically assisted bikes, trikes, etc. that are legal in the UK
hemo
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Re: Derestricting motor to 500w - will I notice much difference?

Post by hemo »

Yes, one can't simply lift the wheel to see how fast it goes as that is a no -load speed test and useless. Any speed test has to be loaded and with a recent calibrated device.
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philg
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Location: Porlock, Somerset

Re: Derestricting motor to 500w - will I notice much difference?

Post by philg »

hemo wrote:Yes, one can't simply lift the wheel to see how fast it goes as that is a no -load speed test and useless. Any speed test has to be loaded and with a recent calibrated device.

It tests the speed at which the controller cuts power to the motor, it works, I have done it.
Speed measured in bike stand max set to 15.6mph
MPH
1 7.6
2 12.4
3 15.1
4 15.6
5 15.6
Last edited by philg on 22 Jan 2021, 7:07am, edited 2 times in total.
The weekend comes, my cycle hums
djnotts
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Re: Derestricting motor to 500w - will I notice much difference?

Post by djnotts »

Every time I come close to contemplating an E bike (copd shot lungs) I read stuff that makes them all sound so complicated that I just keep to pedal power, however slow, and go the long way around hills.
A 50cc moped style PTW sounds easier!
Oldjohnw
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Re: Derestricting motor to 500w - will I notice much difference?

Post by Oldjohnw »

djnotts wrote:Every time I come close to contemplating an E bike (copd shot lungs) I read stuff that makes them all sound so complicated that I just keep to pedal power, however slow, and go the long way around hills.
A 50cc moped style PTW sounds easier!


Don't be put off. I charge the battery, connect it to the bike, switch it on and pedal. You quickly learn to balance power levels, human input and use of gears. I do this without technical knowledge and with little technical awareness.
John
kwackers
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Re: Derestricting motor to 500w - will I notice much difference?

Post by kwackers »

djnotts wrote:Every time I come close to contemplating an E bike (copd shot lungs) I read stuff that makes them all sound so complicated that I just keep to pedal power, however slow, and go the long way around hills.
A 50cc moped style PTW sounds easier!

There's nothing complicated about them.
Just make sure the battery is big enough for the distance and effort you want to put in.

The only thing I don't like is the 15mph limit and a big chunk of that is because I find it jarring and it has caught me out by surprise when overtaking on busy dual carriageways during rush hour.
From what you say that would be a non-issue for you.
kwackers
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Re: Derestricting motor to 500w - will I notice much difference?

Post by kwackers »

philg wrote:
hemo wrote:Yes, one can't simply lift the wheel to see how fast it goes as that is a no -load speed test and useless. Any speed test has to be loaded and with a recent calibrated device.

It tests the speed at which the controller cuts power to the motor, it works, I have done it.
Speed measured in bike stand max set to 15.6mph
MPH
1 7.6
2 12.4
3 15.1
4 15.6
5 15.6

How many models have you tested it on?
Would you be prepared to stand up in court, hand on heart and say that an ebike tested thus shows an accurate limit?

The no load speed of anything is unreliable. The no load flywheel effect and a lack of inertia aren't things the motor controller is designed to deal with, it expects a load and it's designed to respond correctly to that load.
Perhaps yours does work, perhaps they all do but the reality is that any case brought to court wouldn't stand a chance if you're operating something outside its design parameters. And what that means is any prosecution based on it would fail the moment anyone contested it.
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philg
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Location: Porlock, Somerset

Re: Derestricting motor to 500w - will I notice much difference?

Post by philg »

kwackers wrote:
philg wrote:
hemo wrote:Yes, one can't simply lift the wheel to see how fast it goes as that is a no -load speed test and useless. Any speed test has to be loaded and with a recent calibrated device.

It tests the speed at which the controller cuts power to the motor, it works, I have done it.
Speed measured in bike stand max set to 15.6mph
MPH
1 7.6
2 12.4
3 15.1
4 15.6
5 15.6

How many models have you tested it on?
Would you be prepared to stand up in court, hand on heart and say that an ebike tested thus shows an accurate limit?

The no load speed of anything is unreliable. The no load flywheel effect and a lack of inertia aren't things the motor controller is designed to deal with, it expects a load and it's designed to respond correctly to that load.
Perhaps yours does work, perhaps they all do but the reality is that any case brought to court wouldn't stand a chance if you're operating something outside its design parameters. And what that means is any prosecution based on it would fail the moment anyone contested it.


My posts were merely to answer the suggestion that it is impossible to measure the ebike's speed cut-off level, it is and this test does it.

Assuming a proprietary brand of kit and having demonstrated the user has set the speed limit (& wheel size obv.) correctly then I would doubt even the most pedantic plod would take this any further (notwithstanding the extremely unlikely probability IMO of this situation ever occurring in the first place)
The weekend comes, my cycle hums
kwackers
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Re: Derestricting motor to 500w - will I notice much difference?

Post by kwackers »

philg wrote:My posts were merely to answer the suggestion that it is impossible to measure the ebike's speed cut-off level, it is and this test does it.

Assuming a proprietary brand of kit and having demonstrated the user has set the speed limit (& wheel size obv.) correctly then I would doubt even the most pedantic plod would take this any further (notwithstanding the extremely unlikely probability IMO of this situation ever occurring in the first place)

He'd need to be pretty clued up to be able to check the wheel size. Even I had to resort to Google to figure out how to set the wheel size on my controller, can't speak for other controllers but I'm willing to bet it's fairly well hidden on most if not all.

It's moot anyway since the first thing I'd do is move the speed sensor to the front wheel.
leftpoole
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Re: Derestricting motor to 500w - will I notice much difference?

Post by leftpoole »

Of course this is the problem with so called 'E-bikes'.

Bicycles on the other hand, can be admired, drooled over, and most importantly be ridden as far and wide as one would like, want or be able, without that worry of running out of battery LOL ......oh I find the things dreadfully silly when I see people out 'pedaling' and looking so obviously like the legs are turning but the motor is doing the work.
kwackers
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Re: Derestricting motor to 500w - will I notice much difference?

Post by kwackers »

leftpoole wrote:Of course this is the problem with so called 'E-bikes'.

Bicycles on the other hand, can be admired, drooled over, and most importantly be ridden as far and wide as one would like, want or be able, without that worry of running out of battery LOL ......oh I find the things dreadfully silly when I see people out 'pedaling' and looking so obviously like the legs are turning but the motor is doing the work.

TBH I just see bicycles as a tool. Unless they're a fine example of engineering they don't mean much to me at all.

I ride my ebike the same way I ride my normal bikes, same cadence same effort but with a bit more go off the mark and a bit of a push up the hills.
I can't say I worry about running out of battery either. I once had an electrical fault that meant the bike refused to drive the motor about 20 miles from home.
I simply peddled it back like I would with any bicycle.

You do see people idly peddling whilst tootling along but that's their prerogative, I don't see anything particularly silly about it other than the daft requirement that you're supposed to turn the pedals.
Last edited by kwackers on 22 Jan 2021, 11:17am, edited 1 time in total.
Oldjohnw
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Re: Derestricting motor to 500w - will I notice much difference?

Post by Oldjohnw »

I suspect that leftpoole has never ridden an e-bike if the above is what he/she thinks.
John
Antbrewer
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Re: Derestricting motor to 500w - will I notice much difference?

Post by Antbrewer »

Kwackers has literally beat me to the same post by a couple of minutes. I agree entirely with his comments.

I too can 'drool' over my touring Ridgeback bike and also my Cannondale ebike. Both of which are ridden are far as I wish. If whilst on the ebike the battery were to run out ( which it hasn't to date) then it is a normal but slightly heavier bike to ride. No difference at all. Still pedalling. The fact is that I only use my battery when I need to . Maybe 5% of a days ride where I live in the Midlands.

To djnotts. All this 'stuff' that you might be reading on this forum does indeed make ebikes sound complicated. They are not. Forget all this nonsense and if you buy one you will not regret it. It is a bicycle whatever the likes of Leftpoole might suggest. I find it amazing that so many on this forum seem to be against anything that might help others to continue to enjoy cycling.
There will always be people willing to break the law and try to go faster etc etc. On motorbikes and cars and the rest with petrol, diesel and whatever other means of power.
COPD lungs will benefit far more from being outside on a bike pedalling as you do now with the choice of the minimum amount of help on those hills.

To Oldjohnw.....I think you are right.
kwackers
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Re: Derestricting motor to 500w - will I notice much difference?

Post by kwackers »

Antbrewer wrote:I too can 'drool' over my touring Ridgeback bike.

My ebike is actually a Ridgeback Panorama with a Bafang mid drive motor fitted.
With the batteries suitably hidden, panniers fitted it's actually quite hard to spot it's an ebike.

I used it for a 40 miles per day commute, it lessened the effort, reduced the cost and speeded it up just enough to make it worth doing.

A combination of a new railway station nearby cutting 20 mins off a rail commute and working from home etc mean it's no longer needed.
So it's in bits as I convert it back to a standard tourer.
It's served me well, over 20,000 miles as an ebike saving me around £5k in commuting costs and another 10,000 or so as a normal bicycle with associated savings. (The conversion cost me around £700).

Ebikes are a great invention, long may they continue.
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willcee
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Re: Derestricting motor to 500w - will I notice much difference?

Post by willcee »

HEMO . U HAVE PM'S.. will
Oldjohnw
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Re: Derestricting motor to 500w - will I notice much difference?

Post by Oldjohnw »

My bike has a retro fitted motor - front hub. Should I wish even this mechanical duffer could change it back to a conventional push bike in under 30 minutes.
John
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