Are Electric Bikes Way Overpriced

Electrically assisted bikes, trikes, etc.
Boring_Username
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Re: Are Electric Bikes Way Overpriced

Postby Boring_Username » 18 Dec 2020, 11:25am

reohn2 wrote:You're probably right in part,but not all e-bikes are just toys,some are or could be a means of transport were the price right.
That said electric motorcycles are grossly overpriced and their range limiting .


Agreed. It often suits sellers of new products to target high-spending early adopters first, and then move to the mass market later.

Jdsk
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Re: Are Electric Bikes Way Overpriced

Postby Jdsk » 18 Dec 2020, 11:28am

Bonzo Banana wrote:EU puts a tariff of up to 80% on fully assembled ebikes from China so many have more local assembly either in mainland Europe or the UK which adds to costs. So maybe it will be one of the items that gets cheaper after January 1st depending on what tariffs the UK keeps. I did read that we may have a free trade agreement with Vietnam and they make many ebikes there so that could be a good source of ebikes.

Thanks for that...just reading it up.

Jonathan

Oldjohnw
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Re: Are Electric Bikes Way Overpriced

Postby Oldjohnw » 18 Dec 2020, 11:32am

reohn2 wrote:Check out the price of this motorcycle:- https://www.honda.co.uk/motorcycles/ran ... ons.html#/ look carefully at the amount of engineering that goes into it or any other motorcycle FTM,and particularly Royal Enfield.
Compare them with the engineering that goes into e-bikes and it becomes apparent there's no comparison where actual value for money is concerned.
And yes I know there's other things to consider running a motorcycle but that's not part of the discussion,the question is,are e-bike way overpriced and the answer is.Yes,by a large margin.


Yes, I've often thought that. Even electric scooters (the vespa style, not the toys) are the same.
John

stodd
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Re: Are Electric Bikes Way Overpriced

Postby stodd » 18 Dec 2020, 12:34pm

Mentioned above, but a significant part of the cost is battery. I had a quick look at drill batteries and many come out at around £1 per wh, though there are some quite a bit cheaper. The same sort of price range applies to bike batteries; through higher (and definitely overpriced) for Bosch and similar. A higher end bike typically has a 500wh battery or more. So that explains quite a bit of the price difference, but not the £1500-£2000 that OP mentioned.

Greenbuilder
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Re: Are Electric Bikes Way Overpriced

Postby Greenbuilder » 18 Dec 2020, 12:59pm

Yes and no; but in the same way, would you consider electric cars overpriced?
Pay £12500 for a Specialized S-Works Turbo Levo SL, with complex mid-drive motor, coupled to a super light carbon full-sus frame.
Or spend £899 for a Whoosh Faro. A light weight utility commuter with a generic rear hub motor; simple, reliable technology, but still a custom frame with built-in battery.
The Specialized Levo is their top spec off-road machine and someone must have bought one, but people don't replace their cars with this kind of bike.
The Whoosh Faro is from a well-respected UK outlet and I think basic, well designed e-bikes like this will help more of us make the difficult transition out of their cars on to two wheels.

Cyril Haearn
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Re: Are Electric Bikes Way Overpriced

Postby Cyril Haearn » 18 Dec 2020, 12:59pm

PH wrote:
Oldjohnw wrote:
Cyril Haearn wrote:No they are too cheap


How is that?

They make too much noise going over his bridge.

:wink: :wink:
Very funny but wrong unfortunately
They are too quiet
They should make a loud whining (or bleating) noise, as I do :wink:
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mercalia
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Re: Are Electric Bikes Way Overpriced

Postby mercalia » 18 Dec 2020, 2:38pm

rjb wrote:The same elements that go into an electric bike are similar to a cordless electric drill.
You get a battery pack, motor, speed controller and a battery charger. The items on a bike are all seperate with a few extra safety features but this shouldn't significantly increase the price, so it looks like an electric bike should cost no more than an increase of £200 on a similar non electric bike. :wink:


alot of the price is the Lithium battery? £500 or so? It is a rare element found only in a few places. I cant see how the world is going to go green using them

Jdsk
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Re: Are Electric Bikes Way Overpriced

Postby Jdsk » 18 Dec 2020, 3:33pm

There's enough lithium for the foreseeable future:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium#Reserves

Jonathan

richtea99
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Re: Are Electric Bikes Way Overpriced

Postby richtea99 » 18 Dec 2020, 7:19pm

PH wrote:They make too much noise going over his bridge.


Genius! I had to think about that.

rjb
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Re: Are Electric Bikes Way Overpriced

Postby rjb » 18 Dec 2020, 7:45pm

mercalia wrote:
rjb wrote:The same elements that go into an electric bike are similar to a cordless electric drill.
You get a battery pack, motor, speed controller and a battery charger. The items on a bike are all seperate with a few extra safety features but this shouldn't significantly increase the price, so it looks like an electric bike should cost no more than an increase of £200 on a similar non electric bike. :wink:


alot of the price is the Lithium battery? £500 or so? It is a rare element found only in a few places. I cant see how the world is going to go green using them


Several conversion kits are using drill batteries. eg the Brompton Nano. https://www.nanoelectricbikes.co.uk/battery-choices :wink:
Even the cheap rechargeable lithium drill batteries from Lidl etc are only £20 a pop. The Brompton conversion linked above can use these if you purchase the overpriced plug.
At the last count:- Peugeot 531 pro, Dawes Discovery Tandem, Dawes Kingpin, Raleigh 20, Falcon K2 MTB dropped bar tourer, Longstaff trike conversion on a Falcon corsa. :D

UpWrong
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Re: Are Electric Bikes Way Overpriced

Postby UpWrong » 19 Dec 2020, 10:23am

reohn2 wrote:Check out the price of this motorcycle:- https://www.honda.co.uk/motorcycles/ran ... ons.html#/ look carefully at the amount of engineering that goes into it or any other motorcycle FTM,and particularly Royal Enfield.
Compare them with the engineering that goes into e-bikes and it becomes apparent there's no comparison where actual value for money is concerned.
And yes I know there's other things to consider running a motorcycle but that's not part of the discussion,the question is,are e-bike way overpriced and the answer is.Yes,by a large margin.


How about a nice new AJS for £2199? https://www.ajsmotorcycles.co.uk/tempest-125

Yes, crank drive electric bikes are overpriced and unnecessary. There are better solutions.

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squeaker
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Re: Are Electric Bikes Way Overpriced

Postby squeaker » 19 Dec 2020, 10:37am

UpWrong wrote:How about a nice new AJS for £2199? https://www.ajsmotorcycles.co.uk/tempest-125

Mmmm: nice (in black :roll: ) I do wonder what the chrome bits will look like after a couple of years on UK roads, though...
"42"

PH
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Re: Are Electric Bikes Way Overpriced

Postby PH » 19 Dec 2020, 10:57am

reohn2 wrote:Check out the price of this motorcycle:- https://www.honda.co.uk/motorcycles/ran ... ons.html#/ look carefully at the amount of engineering that goes into it or any other motorcycle FTM,and particularly Royal Enfield.

Yes, the price comparison does make it look better value by far. But then you look at the production methods and volumes and it isn't hard to see where the price differential comes from. I've been inside the Derby Toyota plant a few years ago, where they're churning out 3,000 cars a week, it isn't like Ford's Dagenham plant in the 80's where I also visited (Well worked, but we were on strike so much I only ever felt like a visitor)
Maybe if when the E-Bike market is big enough to attract the likes of Honda, the unit price will drop. Until then I think the right comparison is with bikes of the same quality, take away the battery cost and that seems to be around +40% or +60%* with the battery, that doesn't seem unreasonable to me. When you look at the conversion kits, they only make sense if you already have the bike, if they were so overpriced it'd be a more competitive market.

* Feel free to test that theory out for yourself, look at the current new price of those two bikes you've sold and the electric bikes available for 40% - 60% more.

amoto65
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Re: Are Electric Bikes Way Overpriced

Postby amoto65 » 19 Dec 2020, 12:21pm

Greenbuilder wrote:Yes and no; but in the same way, would you consider electric cars overpriced?
Pay £12500 for a Specialized S-Works Turbo Levo SL, with complex mid-drive motor, coupled to a super light carbon full-sus frame.
Or spend £899 for a Whoosh Faro. A light weight utility commuter with a generic rear hub motor; simple, reliable technology, but still a custom frame with built-in battery.
The Specialized Levo is their top spec off-road machine and someone must have bought one, but people don't replace their cars with this kind of bike.
The Whoosh Faro is from a well-respected UK outlet and I think basic, well designed e-bikes like this will help more of us make the difficult transition out of their cars on to two wheels.

I bought a Specialized Comp Carbon Evo not quite in the same price bracket (£7000) cheaper but still an amazing piece of kit.

borisface
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Re: Are Electric Bikes Way Overpriced

Postby borisface » 19 Dec 2020, 6:05pm

I think what does seem overpriced is ebike hire particularly in places like Majorca, many places charge £50-80 per day for a bike that costs £2-4k, whereas car hire can be got for well under £10 a day for a car that costs £10k.