what power/speed would you like if no regulations

[stodd]

I didn't want to hijack another thread but it and our answers made me think;
what power and speed of ebike would I choose if there weren't the regulations?

I very much agree with the regulations as they are; I think they are appropriate to our (and many other countries).
I'm most certainly not one of those petitioning for increased power or speed.
BUT if those regulations weren't there what would I choose for myself? I'm not sure.

There should maybe be some relaxation to make them more appropriate to people with various handicaps.

I'm THINKING of converting my Santa Cruz Highball CC to an eBike using a Bafang 1000 cc Mid frame motor. I am 63 years old and overweight (120kg). I live in Phuket Thailand where there are lots of fantastic rides away from the crazy Thai drivers but it involves quite a lot of hills that I really struggle on........... so that is the reason I am thinking of converting my bike to an eBike (to take car of the hills so that I can keep up with my mates who are younger and a lot fitter).
Cost wise the 1000cc kit comes in at about £1100 here in Thailand for everything.

Anyway what do the gang think..........good idea or bad?
Thanks
Neil

viewtopic.php?p=1569372#p1569372

[hemo]

With speed comes the need for larger batteries, like wise the controller dictates current = power so in theory more battery wh is used up.
Ideally if starting from scratch I would go 13 or 14s and about 18a for about 730w power if needed. That said my bikes currently output 620w at 36v or over 800w temporarily at 48v using higher current.
Currently one can use any controller rating they wish as the rules do not specify controller power, just that the motor must be rated at 250w nominal power, there are no upper power rating stipulations regarding any temporary power.

Even todays Bosch,Yamaha & Steps can exceed 600 -700w temporary with the 300% assist level.
Once these early bikes were about 40nm and rated 250w, today some of them claim 100nm and still 250w rating. 60 extra nm torque doesn't appear out of thin air so the motors have to be producing the extra power via higher current.

[bikercolin]

I was musing this question whilst out today on my Fazua powered bike. I have ridden around 5000Km since moving to an E bike due to injury.
Whilst more speed is allways attractive, I looked at my average speeds, often over 17mph, with longer rides in the summer over 19mph average. Also now able to keep up with club rides.
With that in mind the power, speed and torc provided by my bike is perfect for me.

[Oldjohnw]

At nearly 72 I am perfectly happy with current UK regulations.

[Antbrewer]

I am 72 and not far off 73 and I agree with OldjohnW.
As the saying goes,,,,,,,,If it aint broke don't fix it..
But happily we all have different opinions and goals.

[peterb]

I am 73 and would appreciate an increase in the assisted speed cut off to 18mph.

[rmurphy195]

I'd go with increased speed, up to 30mph - under the same rules as the old mopeds, because you are no longer in the realms of electrical assistance, but in the realms of a powered motor vehicle. Including keep off the cycle paths and out of the cycle lanes etc.

[kwackers]

I'd go with increased speed, up to 30mph - under the same rules as the old mopeds, because you are no longer in the realms of electrical assistance, but in the realms of a powered motor vehicle. Including keep off the cycle paths and out of the cycle lanes etc.

No need. You can already do that.

See them all whizzing around? No.
Because if you're going to go to that much trouble you may as well get a proper motorbike or car.

It's an all or nothing world.
30mph on a bicycle, no insurance, MOT, license etc - yeah that's fine.
Stick a motor on it that won't even get close to that without help from you and suddenly everyone is up in arms.

[Bonefishblues]

With speed comes the need for larger batteries, like wise the controller dictates current = power so in theory more battery wh is used up.
Ideally if starting from scratch I would go 13 or 14s and about 18a for about 730w power if needed. That said my bikes currently output 620w at 36v or over 800w temporarily at 48v using higher current.
Currently one can use any controller rating they wish as the rules do not specify controller power, just that the motor must be rated at 250w nominal power, there are no upper power rating stipulations regarding any temporary power.

Even todays Bosch,Yamaha & Steps can exceed 600 -700w temporary with the 300% assist level.
Once these early bikes were about 40nm and rated 250w, today some of them claim 100nm and still 250w rating. 60 extra nm torque doesn't appear out of thin air so the motors have to be producing the extra power via higher current.

They end up looking like these, I expect:

https://www.motorcyclenews.com/advice/b ... otorbikes/

[reohn2]

Worth a watch:- https://youtu.be/wM8Xli2KTzI
PS,draw your own conclusions.

[hemo]

Any one can legally have 30mph ebike if you are willing to insure, tax and get it tested. It means though you also need a motor cycle helmet. By the time one does all this it is easier and cheaper to insure a moped.

[willcee]

reading contris, perhaps in my experience of cycling with E power isn't as straightforward as many seem to think..firstly i'm out in the sticks so very little urban issues, next i'm a big guy.. over 225 at present strong yes, but still recovering from hip surgery, need to get some fitness back on a normal lightweight if the weather would allow, so I'm aware having now built about 24 midmotors that these people with different cycling abilities are all looking for different things..weight of cyclist and where they live ,and cycle and their skill level has to be taken into consideration.. Most of those I built were being using for leisure, some on their own chassis some I sourced the frames and went from there, yet my own experiences cycling with a chum and we did so pre E power he as me would say 20 is a better cutoff point ,for well sussed reasons.. Both his and mine could almost double that, and we know as experienced handlers of race bikes that the concentration at high speed is tiresome, not what we ride for and not enjoyable.. he has a second machine that cannot be tuned to do more than 16.5 and he finds that more often he is riding on the cusp of that.. power coming in and out in fact when beside him I can see it happening.. so over many years our side by side mph must be around 17/19.. we are out there on quiet B roads few vehicles and quite a few hills .. the people who set these rules are like the guys who design cars, bikes, TV's,most electronic gadgets, in fact many things people use daily, they do it as a job, they don't work or drive or cycle daily or repair or handle complaints on what they design cause if they did things would quickly imho be easier to use... will

[kwackers]

he has a second machine that cannot be tuned to do more than 16.5 and he finds that more often he is riding on the cusp of that.. power coming in and out in fact when beside him I can see it happening.. so over many years our side by side mph must be around 17/19.. we are out there on quiet B roads few vehicles and quite a few hills .. the people who set these rules are like the guys who design cars, bikes, TV's,most electronic gadgets, in fact many things people use daily, they do it as a job, they don't work or drive or cycle daily or repair or handle complaints on what they design cause if they did things would quickly imho be easier to use... will

The cutting in and out is the thing I really dislike.
As someone who's spent most of their life cycling in heavy traffic in urban areas during rush hour I think it verges on dangerous.
Having the rug pulled from under you when you're overtaking and dropping back into moving traffic is at best nasty.
Probably not a problem for retired tootlers using ebikes to help keep cycling, I doubt they'd be dancing with traffic anyway.

As you say they're just arbitrary rules pulled out of someone's posterior by folk who don't use them because they sounded like a good idea at the time.

[stodd]

The cutting in and out is the thing I really dislike.
As someone who's spent most of their life cycling in heavy traffic in urban areas during rush hour I think it verges on dangerous.
Having the rug pulled from under you when you're overtaking and dropping back into moving traffic is at best nasty.
Probably not a problem for retired tootlers using ebikes to help keep cycling, I doubt they'd be dancing with traffic anyway.

The cutting out is fairly progressive on most decent ebikes; but I guess could still be an issue in some traffic conditions.

People who what to use ebikes to dance with traffic should probably go for an s-pedalec which have their own appropriate set of rules (view from retired tootler).

[kwackers]

The cutting in and out is the thing I really dislike.
As someone who's spent most of their life cycling in heavy traffic in urban areas during rush hour I think it verges on dangerous.
Having the rug pulled from under you when you're overtaking and dropping back into moving traffic is at best nasty.
Probably not a problem for retired tootlers using ebikes to help keep cycling, I doubt they'd be dancing with traffic anyway.

The cutting out is fairly progressive on most decent ebikes; but I guess could still be an issue in some traffic conditions.

People who what to use ebikes to dance with traffic should probably go for an s-pedalec which have their own appropriate set of rules (view from retired tootler).

To be progressive it would have to start very low, I would say 5-8mph.
In practice it starts much nearer the cut off simply because otherwise it'd be providing assistance at low speeds when you don't need it and very little when you did.

It's an arbitrary rule introduced by people who have probably never ridden one.