Towing with an ebike.

Electrically assisted bikes, trikes, etc. that are legal in the UK
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irisincense
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Joined: 11 Feb 2021, 7:27am

Towing with an ebike.

Post by irisincense »

Hi,
Will an ebike with a 250w motor be strong enough to tow a 5 year old in a trailer and carry a one year old in a baby seat? I currently do this on my push bike and I am thinking about buying an ebike but have been told by one manufacturer that I will overload the bike. Anyone have any advice/experience?
Thanks
Jess
Phil Fouracre
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Re: Towing with an ebike.

Post by Phil Fouracre »

I guess it’s down to gearing rather than power? Perhaps look at a Dutch type, as they seem to be able to carry numerous kids and shopping! :-)
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity
Oldjohnw
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Re: Towing with an ebike.

Post by Oldjohnw »

Overload the bike or the motor?
John
emleyman
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Re: Towing with an ebike.

Post by emleyman »

Was the comment definitely about overloading the motor, or was it the bike frame? Quite a lot of frames are only rated to carry 100kg. Is is possible that the weight of you plus childseat plus baby plus the vertical load on the trailer hitch will overload the frame?
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al_yrpal
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Re: Towing with an ebike.

Post by al_yrpal »

Overload? Rubbish...a bit of jobsworth drivel I believe. A normal fit cyclist could carry a child and tow a trailer quite easily on a conventional bike so why cant their motor assist someone less fit?

I was told something similar by a British Ebike manufacturer and on that basis I wouldnt touch their products with a bargepole.

Al
Reuse, recycle, thus do your bit to save the planet.... Get stuff at auctions, Dump, Charity Shops, Facebook Marketplace, Ebay, Car Boots. Choose an Old House, and a Banger ..... And cycle as often as you can......
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NUKe
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Re: Towing with an ebike.

Post by NUKe »

Jess
yes no problem there is a lady round here with that setup. Just like a cyclists that has to lug everything around you will be a little slower for a given input from you . but yes the bike is more than capable

Also this what Phil is referring to Dutch Cargo bikes
https://www.bakfiets.com/
they are good but expensive, the Good thing is they do retain there value, if you can find one second hand you wont loose money. there used to be a shop in Cambridge that sold them, but the name eludes me, I think Bikefix in London my also be a stockist.
NUKe
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lowrider
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Re: Towing with an ebike.

Post by lowrider »

al_yrpal

I was told something similar by a British E bike manufacturer and on that basis I wouldnt touch their products with a bargepole.


I was told something similar when I nearly bought a Raleigh Motus, not by the salesman but by one of the Mechanics outside the shop. I was wanting the bike to go touring, the story was that the smaller active line motor was not up to that and prone to burning out if it was loaded too much like for instance with a heavy load and hills. His advice was to go for a bike with a more robust motor.

Not all e bikes are created equal even from the same manufacturer

It also confirmed my impression that the salesman was clueless, far from driving me away I would prefer that salesman are realistic about the performance of their products. You here stories on forums of people on their 5th warranty motor, obviously they have been sold something thats not fit for the purpose they bought it for. Much better to have someone that is upfront about the reality of the product than telling you what you want to hear or saying nothing at all to get the sale.
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al_yrpal
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Re: Towing with an ebike.

Post by al_yrpal »

I was enquiring about a new bike for my unfit partner. The sales lady was very reluctant about selling a bike for her use and admitted that some folk went through motors like wildfire and the statistic of 5 got mentioned. Very strange. I think we will go for a step through with a Bosch Performance line motor.

Al
Reuse, recycle, thus do your bit to save the planet.... Get stuff at auctions, Dump, Charity Shops, Facebook Marketplace, Ebay, Car Boots. Choose an Old House, and a Banger ..... And cycle as often as you can......
Lodge
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Re: Towing with an ebike.

Post by Lodge »

If you have a good quality well cooled e-bike motor there shouldn't be a problem. However...

We bought a new a Hase Pino tandem with a Shimano Steps motor last year (just before lockdown 1). It was originally supplied with an E6100 motor. We discovered that in our normal cycling area in the Staffordshire Moorlands and adjacent Peak District that the motor would overheat, the assist would die away then cease altogether. Leave for 5-10 min to cool and off we go again until the next long hill.

We contacted JD Tandems who, with their excellent and friendly customer orientation, offered to exchange and upgrade to the better cooled and higher torque rated mountain bike oriented E8000 motor. That was duly sent by courier and I swapped it over. This was straightforward plug and play; I have the appropriate tools for the crank and pinion. Now there's no problem with overheating even hauling a combined 150 kg crew up 15% (occasionally 20%) gradients. We're well impressed. The only (very slight) downside is that the battery doesn't last quite as long as with the E6100.

A few years back we had an earlier incarnation of the Pino, this one with a front hub Protanium motor (also 250 W). This performed very well although, as we then lived on the French-Swiss border it wasn't often subjected to the repeated up-down topography we now have round here (we avoided the really lumpy bits of the Jura, Vosges and Schwarzwald). That said it coped well with the local foothills and some extended climbs when holidaying in Brittany and the Istrian peninsula of Croatia without overheated or otherwise dying.
hemo
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Re: Towing with an ebike.

Post by hemo »

I use a 250w hub for towing at times with 60kg payload, towing is about gearing low.
saudidave
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Re: Towing with an ebike.

Post by saudidave »

The average bike shop mechanic has no technical knowledge about the inner workings of a Bosch Active Line motor because they aren’t serviceable and bike mechanics by and large don’t understand how they work.

As for carrying a 5 year old and a 12 month old baby, has anyone mentioned the overall weight of the rider and sprogs? A 5 year old weighs about 3 stones and a rug rat about one and a half. Add to that a 13 stone adult and the gross cargo is 19 stones/266lbs/120kg. A Raleigh Motus weighs 55lbs so all up, bike and all, the load is 321lbs or 146 Kgs.

Since the Bosch technical data recommends a max of 250kgs for the active line plus and they use that motor on cargo bikes then it’s a no brainer!
lowrider
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Re: Towing with an ebike.

Post by lowrider »

saudidave
The average bike shop mechanic has no technical knowledge about the inner workings of a Bosch Active Line motor because they aren’t serviceable and bike mechanics by and large don’t understand how they work.

This is just dismissive, you assert that that cycle mechanics have no knowledge. I suspect even the average one will know more than the majority of contributors to this forum. The mechanic although not authorised to repair will be more than aware of the failures coming back to the shop and likely others in different locations.

If youve ever purchased a vehicle with an inerrant issue you know that the mechanic is often the first hint that there is a problem with the model. Ive done that twice, when you get that funny look and they say something like "you should have bought the diesel" or the "1.4 is better" One of those vehicles was from a highly regarded manufacturer many of the owners of vehicles from the same were unwilling to accept that there was even a problem.
saudidave
As for carrying a 5 year old and a 12 month old baby, has anyone mentioned the overall weight of the rider and sprogs? A 5 year old weighs about 3 stones and a rug rat about one and a half. Add to that a 13 stone adult and the gross cargo is 19 stones/266lbs/120kg. A Raleigh Motus weighs 55lbs so all up, bike and all, the load is 321lbs or 146 Kgs.

Without context that means nothing, weight is not an indication of load without a description of the speed and terrain.
saudidave
Since the Bosch technical data recommends a max of 250kgs for the active line plus and they use that motor on cargo bikes then it’s a no brainer!
The motus was a good bike but just not for the purpose I wanted it for. You also have to consider the capacity of the bike and be less trusting of the manufacturers literature especially if you are made aware of issues that are cropping up.

The Motus is a budget bike with a budget motor that its place in the market. Bosch themselves have motors specifically cargo bikes, the cargo line. If they do that why would you trust a manufacturer that specs an inferior motor for that purpose. It will be either built to a price and or not suitable for heavy loads. I think when buying a mechanical device such as a bike or a vehicle there is no such thing as a "no brainer"
hemo
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Re: Towing with an ebike.

Post by hemo »

With Bosch and the likes the knowledge is in the machine that does the fault finding.
saudidave
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Re: Towing with an ebike.

Post by saudidave »

In reply to lowrider

"Bike shop mechanic advice" The average bike shop mechanic isn't that knowledgeable or intelligent, nor do they know how an electric bike motor operates. Some may, the majority don't. If given advice by one , heed it with extreme caution. After 50 yrs of cycling, competitively and as a hobbyist and tourer, I've lost count of the garbage advice proffered at the average lbs.

"Weight is not an indication of load" Who taught you physics? It's the starting point of the calculation and the weight I used for a calculation was nowhere near the max recommendation provided by Bosch, not a numbty bike mechanic or someone like your good self who didn't design or manufacture it. With the correct gearing a 20 stone bloater could haul a 5yr old and a sprog up the side of a house on a bike with a Bosch active line plus motor

"The Motus is a budget bike with a budget motor that (has) its place in the market" My Motus grand tour retailed at £2,250.00 two years ago and whilst it ain't no Reiss & Muller, it is hardly a budget machine. Raleigh now want £2500.00 for it with a lower spec hub gear and brakes. It remains an upper middle range spec for all but the wealthy. In actual fact Reiss and Muller use the engine and similar componentry in several of their bikes.

Other than the poor assembly of my bike and and the initial bad design of it, subsequently modified by my technical knowledge and practical application of that, my bike precedes and mirrors the latest offering from Raleigh except I have a Nexus 8 and they use a Nexus7.

I'm not trusting the manufacturers literature, I'm basing my experience of buying and riding a specific bike. Please note the fact that I've owned, maintained & ridden it and based upon that I'd highly reccomend a Raleigh Motus Grand tour, in it's current spec and purchased from a quality bike shop with skilled and experienced staff.

May I suggest that we agree to differ? I've gained a lot of bicycle knowledge and mechanical skills over half a century of riding, maintaining & restoring bikes and I have personal experience of maintaining and riding this specific machine for a protracted period of time. It's a good 'Un.
Last edited by saudidave on 24 Mar 2021, 9:33pm, edited 1 time in total.
saudidave
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Re: Towing with an ebike.

Post by saudidave »

"That is an utterly contemptable attitude"

It's not the attitude I have, it's merely an observation of the situation. Of course there are lots of intelligent l.b.s.mechanics, but there are also a fair proportion of intellectually challenged ones too, so you can't' take as fact everything that all of them say.

I changed the rear sprocket on my Motus Grand tour a few months back as the gearing was too low for my local terrain and as a precaution I contacted the technical help desk at Raleigh UK's head office to ensure that it would be O.K to do so and would the electronics need a service update to accommodate the change? I told them I'd changed the rear sprocket from 22 teeth to 18 teeth. The response was that I should put the original sprocket back on as that could damage the motor! I thought that feasible but unlikely given the number of variations of gearing on models for sale and so I phoned Bosch in Germany for advice. The chap there was rather amused that Raleigh had advised that and told me in perfect English, that particular change would be perfectly O.K. and directed me where to research on the Bosch website for the safe parameters of the gearing that the Active Line Plus could safely accommodate.

If the technical help desk at the headquarters of the company that specified and assembled the bike can't provide accurate technical information related to the bike they've manufactured and sold in great numbers, how can you expect the average l.b.s. mechanic to know about it with any degree of technical accuracy or consistency. Some will, some won't but if you have a conversation with a random one outside a bike shop, how would you know?
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