E-BIKES KIT CONVERSIONS

Electrically assisted bikes, trikes, etc. that are legal in the UK
stodd
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Re: E-BIKES KIT CONVERSIONS

Post by stodd »

peterb wrote: 27 Apr 2021, 4:55pm and would welcome suggestions and maybe a shopping list of recommended components, especially those suitable for lighter road bikes.
For road bike most people recommend rear hub kit; crank drive can be better if you have extreme hills, and front drive easier to fit in some cases.

You will find lots of useful stuff at https://wooshbikes.co.uk/?hubkits
Read it all, but in particular search down for the WHICH MOTOR? section which gives lots of information; it will give you a good idea of options and tradeoffs even if you don't buy from there, and even don't go for any of the exact motors they list.

Woosh are really good to deal with. You could probably save a little buying elsewhere, but are unlikely to get such good suggestions and service. Main problem is they are out of many items. Buying a complete kit you can be fairly sure all the parts will work well together; it's not too complicated but very reassuring when fitting your first kit.

Also, (I think I am repeating myself) look at https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/forums ... ussion.42/
Vorpal
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Re: E-BIKES KIT CONVERSIONS

Post by Vorpal »

Off-topic posts & responses have been mostly removed in an attempt to let the thread return to it's original topic.
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patmagennis
Posts: 1
Joined: 29 Apr 2021, 12:43pm

Re: E-BIKES KIT CONVERSIONS

Post by patmagennis »

I bought my wife an electric Brompton before the 'official' version was available. The conversion by Nano https://www.nanoelectricbikes.co.uk/ has been reliable and, especially, fun. Nano convert other bikes and Linda Power (the person who usually answers their phone) is very helpful. You could do a lot worse than to give them a call.
hjd10
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Joined: 25 Feb 2010, 9:43pm
Location: Originally from Lancashire but now in Lincolnshire

Re: E-BIKES KIT CONVERSIONS

Post by hjd10 »

stodd wrote: 27 Apr 2021, 6:13pm
peterb wrote: 27 Apr 2021, 4:55pm and would welcome suggestions and maybe a shopping list of recommended components, especially those suitable for lighter road bikes.
For road bike most people recommend rear hub kit; crank drive can be better if you have extreme hills, and front drive easier to fit in some cases.

You will find lots of useful stuff at https://wooshbikes.co.uk/?hubkits
Read it all, but in particular search down for the WHICH MOTOR? section which gives lots of information; it will give you a good idea of options and tradeoffs even if you don't buy from there, and even don't go for any of the exact motors they list.

Woosh are really good to deal with. You could probably save a little buying elsewhere, but are unlikely to get such good suggestions and service. Main problem is they are out of many items. Buying a complete kit you can be fairly sure all the parts will work well together; it's not too complicated but very reassuring when fitting your first kit.

Also, (I think I am repeating myself) look at https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/forums ... ussion.42/
I concur with the service from Woosh, I have two systems that are both in daily use. ;-)
minusninine
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Joined: 16 Jan 2020, 3:08pm

Re: E-BIKES KIT CONVERSIONS

Post by minusninine »

I’d been waiting to post on this thread until I had something to contribute, in the shape of my converted Specialized AWOL touring bike. I went on my first ride on it today and can happily report that it does exactly what I wanted it to do, that is be a comfortable all-roads all-loads tourer. The kit came from woosh, and fitting wasn’t without problems which I’ll describe below but the result is spot on.

I’ve had an ebike (an ezego commute) for 18 months now, after I spent most of 2019 recovering from a serious respiratory illness (pre-COVID) and had lost all the fitness I’d had (which wasn’t much, but a mildly overweight me could do short 100km to 100 mile audaxes no trouble; after I was ill 10-15 miles was too much on my unassisted bikes). The ezego has been more than fine and done everything I asked of it and more - bought as a commuter, lockdowns meant I’ve worked from home almost exclusively since March 2020, so I started using the ezego for tours around home (Norfolk), expanding my horizons beyond the 10 miles I could just about do unassisted. It helped keep me sane this past year and kept me going back to my road bike to try and push myself further, so that now I can just about do 25 miles on that - I’m not ready, at 47, to switch wholly to ebikes yet.

The only issue with the ezego is that it is a flat bar hybrid, and I just can’t get along with flat bars on the road for any distance. At home was my previous commuter/tourer, a Specialized AWOL, a tank of a bike that rolls over everything and is very comfy to ride but which was just too heavy unassisted at 15kg - any effort I tried to put in above just chugging along was wasted and with the ebike I wasn’t riding it any more. The idea formed to sell the ezego and fit a kit to the AWOL so I could get back my comfy chugging tourer but now with a motor giving me that assistance I needed to go 30 miles plus. Because of the AWOL’s riding characteristics (slow and steady) and my experience with the ezego I knew adding 6kg+ of rear hub motor and battery wouldn’t affect the handling like it would if I tried to convert my road bike, and this way I got to keep riding a bike I liked very much while removing its biggest flaw.

I chose the woosh kit as it was rear hub like my ezego (I have dynamo hub in the front wheel), would fit 135mm spaced rear stays and accepted a cassette. The first problem I encountered was that the OLD of the AWOL seemed to actually measure 131mm, so the new hub was too wide. There was also a chance that the pedal sensor would interfere with the new triple chainset I’d fitted just before I got ill, so to a bike shop it all went. Much sweat and swearing from the mechanic resetting the rear stays, and a new longer BB later, the wheel was in (with a schwalbe smart sam plus tyre to avoid puncturing and having to try to get the rear wheel out on the road). I am currently stuck with only the middle ring of my chainset (34t) which means I’m now quite undergeared; a 40t ring and outer chainguard is on its way to replace middle and outer rings. This was a possibility that I’d have preferred to avoid but in practice I don’t think I need any more range than 1x9 with an 11-34t cassette gives me when I have the motor. So far I’ve ridden 32 miles and the battery only dropped from 5 bars to 4 at 27 miles so it looks like the 600Wh battery range will give me at least the expected 60 miles per charge (I know these indicators are never linear), where the 400Wh battery in the ezego just about gave me 40 miles.

The result, as proven today, is everything I wanted - a comfortable touring bike for relaxed rides around the countryside and a dependable commuter for my 14 mile round trip once I’m back on campus. The ride quality doesn’t match my road bike so I still have the incentive to run that when I want to enjoy the sensation of riding a fast bike, but most of the time this will be my choice. With a dynamo hub and lamp with usb charger I can run lights or charge my phone for navigation.

So this post is much longer than I had planned, sorry! My point is that a conversion kit can be the ideal choice when the ebike you’d like isn’t available off the shelf. There are of course plenty of dropbarred road and gravel ebikes now but there really isn’t a drop bar tourer ebike like, say, a ‘Dawes egalaxy’, which I find quite surprising. Converting a known and loved bike is also much cheaper - once I sell the ezego, which was £1k new, I will likely have almost covered the costs of the conversion while a new dropbar ebike would probably cost more than £2k.
Jdsk
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Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: E-BIKES KIT CONVERSIONS

Post by Jdsk »

Very interesting. Thanks for sharing.

Are you going to have another go at the front changer?

Jonathan
minusninine
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Joined: 16 Jan 2020, 3:08pm

Re: E-BIKES KIT CONVERSIONS

Post by minusninine »

Thanks Jonathan,

The issue with the front derailleur is that with the longer bottom bracket, the middle ring is where the big ring should be, so I can’t reach the outer ring. I could probably use the two inner rings but based on 30 miles today in what will be typical terrain I never left the top half of the cassette and only used level 3 out of 5 on the motor so I’m not sure if a smaller ring would get any use. I’ll have a think before any trip to Wales or the Lakes though (not likely this year).

I had wanted to keep the triple to preserve the possibility of easily switching back to non assisted use, but when the rear stays needed spreading that possibility receded anyway, certainly for switching back and forth.
ChrisF
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Re: E-BIKES KIT CONVERSIONS

Post by ChrisF »

minusninine wrote: 9 May 2021, 5:40pm ...There are of course plenty of dropbarred road and gravel ebikes now but there really isn’t a drop bar tourer ebike like, say, a ‘Dawes egalaxy’, which I find quite surprising.
I have recently converted my old SuperGalaxy using a Woosh kit, so I now have an eGalaxy. I compromised on the length of the BB and fitted the LHS pedal sensor instead; I can still just get into the big ring . In fact with the motor I rarely need to go into the smaller rings; I haven't used the inner one at all since fitting the motor, including a 25% hills in Yorkshire.
Chris F, Cornwall
minusninine
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Joined: 16 Jan 2020, 3:08pm

Re: E-BIKES KIT CONVERSIONS

Post by minusninine »

That’s interesting, as mine is the left hand sensor too. It looked like there would be enough space on the spindle but the shape of the sensor and the crankarm just clashed so the longer BB was needed and there wasn’t enough lateral range on the front derailleur. I will try a 40t chainring and if that isn’t big enough I can go to a max 44t.
And I’d have to travel quite some distance to find 25% hills around here!
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Sweep
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Re: E-BIKES KIT CONVERSIONS

Post by Sweep »

Thanks for the info minus and others on the whoosh.
Not being techie or knowing much about kits and the mysterious pedal sensor I must admit to being confused by the problem with the triple front.
Is this a general issue with these kits, or whoosh, or just something to do with your particular bike frame?
I guess I would ideally like to stick with my current set-up as much as possible (typically on my bikes 3x8 or 3x9) , using as much pedal power as possible while having the leccy there to help. While I appreciate that with leccy power I might be able to let that take more of the load of climbing and stay in a higher gear I don't want to have to rely on that until I have to. And if I dispense with some rings I can see that being a real problem if I am ever out on a ride and the battery power goes. That would mean walking for sure on many gradients.
Sweep
minusninine
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Re: E-BIKES KIT CONVERSIONS

Post by minusninine »

Hi Sweep,
I’m certainly no techie but if everything fit first time as it should I reckon I could have followed the detailed instructions provided by Woosh and fitted the kit. If it fit...

A common complaint about the kits sold by Woosh and others is that things don’t always easily fit - fork stays needing to be filed out to fit front hub motors and issues with chainsets being common on forums like pedelecs. These issues can be solved by someone with some mechanical sympathy easily enough but they are there.

The issue with the pedal sensor may be due to my choice, led by the description on the Woosh website. Wanting to keep the triple chainset I went for the left hand sensor on the basis that it would take less space on the bottom bracket spindle. It may in fact be true that the right hand sensor would have fitted better. Based on pictures and discussion with Woosh it looked promising but things were just the wrong shape to slide neatly along the spindle snugly so a longer bottom bracket spindle was needed. As the increased length is symmetric this causes the problem that the chainrings will be further out than before, so either the front derailleur will need adjusting or in my case its just too far to still reach the outer ring.

I might well still be able to access the inner ring, which would solve your problem of being stuck powerless on a hill, but I need to fit a bigger middle ring to compensate for the loss of the big ring and then see if the drop from middle to inner is still ok. In my case this will be 40 to 24. I’ll report back once I fit the chainring.

I am running the motor at level 3 out of 5 most of the time and this gives me the battery life claimed by the manufacturer. I’m heavy (100kg+) and often carrying 5-6kg of work stuff but it is flat here.
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Sweep
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Re: E-BIKES KIT CONVERSIONS

Post by Sweep »

Many thanks for the reply minus. I need to do more studying, have downloaded their instructions. First sight of them, the square taper spindle thing does puzzle me, so will probably be back with more questions when I have formulated my ideas more/got myself onto a proper keyboard.
Sweep
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velorog
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Location: East Yorkshire

Re: E-BIKES KIT CONVERSIONS

Post by velorog »

I have been lurking on this section of the forum for a couple of years, gathering information on ebikes and kits. Due to osteoarthritis and old age I have known that I would have to switch to an ebike at some stage. The big questions were when and to what system; a ready built ebike or a kit, crank drive, front or rear hub.

I decided against a manufactured ebike as I did not feel confident that I could replicate my existing position on a modern set-up. Too steep a seat tube and bars slammed down to the head tube. Those that offered a more relaxed position invariably had suspension forks. A definite no-no.

As I ride in a hilly area I needed a kit that would perform well on hills. The general consensus is that crank drives are more efficient on hills as they transmit the power through the bike’s gears. This narrowed my choice down to two kits; Bafang BBS01 or Tongsheng TSDZ2. The Bafang is cadence sensed whereas the Tongsheng is torque sensed. There is a good comparison of these kits at https://ebikechoices.com/tsdz2-vs-bbs02/ . Because of the more natural feel of a torqued sensed kit I decided on the Tongsheng.

When to change? I have been reluctant to make the switch to e-assist, but have been getting progressively slower on my rides and when I returned from a 30 mile ride with a moving average of 8.5 mph I knew it was time to convert one of my bikes. I had already decided some time ago on the donor bike and supplier. The bike was a 26” wheeled Surly LHT which had already been modified to a step through frame. One of the problems with kits is that you end up with a lot of excess cable which can look unsightly. The LHT has plenty of space beind the seat tube where I could conceal the excess cable in a case.

I ordered the kit and battery (post brexit) as two separate orders from a Chinese company pswpower.com who hold stock in Germany. It arrived within 7 working days with no VAT or import duty to pay. Delivery was £9 on each order. A 5 star sevice.

The reviews claim you can fit the kit in 2 hours but as this was my first conversion (and hopefully one and only) I took my time and completed it in stages over a week. The fitting instructions that come with the kit are minimal, so I watched a number of YouTube videos and trawled the pedalecs forum to make sure I was aware of any potential problems. Thankfully, ebikechoices also have a web page on how to configure the LCD.

Everything appears to have gone smoothly, and apart from a ride to the next village I now have a shiny new ebike waiting to be tested. Initial impressions are good with a smooth delivery of power as it glided up the 10% hill out of the village on level 3 assist (4 available).
ChrisF
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Re: E-BIKES KIT CONVERSIONS

Post by ChrisF »

Sweep wrote: 10 May 2021, 11:28am Not being techie or knowing much about kits and the mysterious pedal sensor I must admit to being confused by the problem with the triple front.
Is this a general issue with these kits, or whoosh, or just something to do with your particular bike frame?
I suspect it may crop up with any kit, since they will all need a pedal sensor. I too had to fit a longer BB because there wasn't enough room to fit the right-hand sensor (magnets on a split ring that fits to the inner chainwheel, and a separate sensor that fits under the BB mounting ring). But with some triple chainrings, depending on design, there may be enough room with a standard BB. I went through a few hoops (and 3 types of pedal sensor) before it all worked - PM me if you need more help
Chris F, Cornwall
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Sweep
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Re: E-BIKES KIT CONVERSIONS

Post by Sweep »

ChrisF wrote: 11 May 2021, 5:00pm
Sweep wrote: 10 May 2021, 11:28am Not being techie or knowing much about kits and the mysterious pedal sensor I must admit to being confused by the problem with the triple front.
Is this a general issue with these kits, or whoosh, or just something to do with your particular bike frame?
I suspect it may crop up with any kit, since they will all need a pedal sensor. I too had to fit a longer BB because there wasn't enough room to fit the right-hand sensor (magnets on a split ring that fits to the inner chainwheel, and a separate sensor that fits under the BB mounting ring). But with some triple chainrings, depending on design, there may be enough room with a standard BB. I went through a few hoops (and 3 types of pedal sensor) before it all worked - PM me if you need more help
after pondering/sleeping on this, my puzzle is essentially this.
I gather that you often, maybe always need to install a BB with a longer spindle than normal.
Looking at the whoosh instructions seems to confirm this.
But since a given crankset on a given frame requires a BB with a certain length to work smoothly (chainline etc?) isn't using a BB with a longer spindle inevitably going to ***er things up?
Or have I missed something.
Sweep
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