Who needs more than 250W?

Electrically assisted bikes, trikes, etc. that are legal in the UK
nez
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Re: Who needs more than 250W?

Post by nez »

Merlin wrote: 1 Jul 2021, 10:04pm
nez wrote: 1 Jul 2021, 6:57pm
Good luck. I’ll try one some day!
Do Nez and if it were me, I would go for one of those with the hub based motor is you are going to keep going on the road. Particularly as you maybe age or start to gain weight. For that purpose (for climbing as a normal club rider) they are great and the new hub based ones only weigh 12-14 kilos.

I'm just wanting assistance on the flat because of my health and cannot see any reason for the limitation being where it is. 25kph when I ride on the flat at 28/29kph. 30 kph seems attractive for ageing road cyclists and no more dangerous given the advent of - for instance lighter weight ebikes and disc brakes.
.
Sorry, I think we may be at cross purposes. I have an eBike - a Koga. I meant I'd like to try an eTrike one day. It seems to me the main disadvantage to trikes is hills, and if the motor helps there, I expect one would make a great fun ride.
Merlin
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Joined: 8 Apr 2021, 8:47pm

Re: Who needs more than 250W?

Post by Merlin »

I would imagine it would be great nez - especially if you wanted to tour on the tricycle.

I'm just looking to ride as I did before my illness and to feel safe on the roads. It frustrates me that a 16 year old can get on a moped with a minimal road test whilst a 57 year old cyclist with over 100,00km under his belt cannot ride at half that speed in a more ecologically sound form of transport. I fail to see the logic.

Make Power E Bikes only available to the same people and for use under the same regulations by all means. What on earth is the issue?
ChrisF
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Re: Who needs more than 250W?

Post by ChrisF »

Merlin wrote: 4 Jul 2021, 8:13pm I would imagine it would be great nez - especially if you wanted to tour on the tricycle.

I'm just looking to ride as I did before my illness and to feel safe on the roads. It frustrates me that a 16 year old can get on a moped with a minimal road test whilst a 57 year old cyclist with over 100,00km under his belt cannot ride at half that speed in a more ecologically sound form of transport. I fail to see the logic.

Make Power E Bikes only available to the same people and for use under the same regulations by all means. What on earth is the issue?
Nothing to stop you buying a more powerful eBike and using it on the road, but you must get insurance, licence etc just as the 16-y-old moped rider.
So , I think you have answered my original question - 'Who needs more than 250W? - those who want a moped or motorbike, not a pedal cycle.
Chris F, Cornwall
Oldjohnw
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Re: Who needs more than 250W?

Post by Oldjohnw »

ChrisF wrote: 5 Jul 2021, 8:03am
Merlin wrote: 4 Jul 2021, 8:13pm I would imagine it would be great nez - especially if you wanted to tour on the tricycle.

I'm just looking to ride as I did before my illness and to feel safe on the roads. It frustrates me that a 16 year old can get on a moped with a minimal road test whilst a 57 year old cyclist with over 100,00km under his belt cannot ride at half that speed in a more ecologically sound form of transport. I fail to see the logic.

Make Power E Bikes only available to the same people and for use under the same regulations by all means. What on earth is the issue?
Nothing to stop you buying a more powerful eBike and using it on the road, but you must get insurance, licence etc just as the 16-y-old moped rider.
So , I think you have answered my original question - 'Who needs more than 250W? - those who want a moped or motorbike, not a pedal cycle.
Exactly. It really is a non-question. Anyone who “needs” more speed can simply go down this route. There is a cutoff point - there will always be one somewhere and there will always be someone who wants more.
John
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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Who needs more than 250W?

Post by NATURAL ANKLING »

Hi,
Want more power?
Yes you can always go down the route of buying different vehicles.
But of course these aren't legal where bicycles are!
NA Thinks Just End 2 End Return + Bivvy - Some day Soon I hope
You'll Still Find Me At The Top Of A Hill
Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.
Merlin
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Re: Who needs more than 250W?

Post by Merlin »

ChrisF wrote: 5 Jul 2021, 8:03am
Nothing to stop you buying a more powerful eBike and using it on the road, but you must get insurance, licence etc just as the 16-y-old moped rider.
So , I think you have answered my original question - 'Who needs more than 250W? - those who want a moped or motorbike, not a pedal cycle.
To clarify anyway, it's not about 250w. We don't get that anyway. We get nothing above 15mph so the 250w is only available part time - like having cars that automatically cut output to suit the speed limit. That would go down well wouldn't it...

It's about having the right to use an environmentally friendly and healthy form of transport as a means of getting around the local environment - and allowing it to ride at similar speeds to motorised traffic in urban areas.

I have no issue with tax, insurance and a compulsory helmet as required on a moped. Nor for a proficiency test and an age limit. That's fine.

I do have an issue with it not being offered given the obvious advantages in so many areas - not least of which is urban congestion.
Oldjohnw
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Re: Who needs more than 250W?

Post by Oldjohnw »

I’m not aware of this particular right.
John
Merlin
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Re: Who needs more than 250W?

Post by Merlin »

It's the 21st century John.

Try to think outside of the box.

You WILL lose the right to take your Range Rover to the Tesco Metro at some point. Or maybe your grandchildren will.
stodd
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Re: Who needs more than 250W?

Post by stodd »

Merlin wrote: 5 Jul 2021, 11:47am It's about having the right to use an environmentally friendly and healthy form of transport as a means of getting around the local environment - and allowing it to ride at similar speeds to motorised traffic in urban areas.

I have no issue with tax, insurance and a compulsory helmet as required on a moped. Nor for a proficiency test and an age limit. That's fine.
Nobody (at least, nobody here) is suggesting that 'right' be taken away. As I understand it an s-pedalec is classified under regulations as a moped, even if your preferred machine will look very different from most machines classified as 'moped'. You seem to agree that there isn't an issue with the right being associated with appropriate responsibilities.

The biggest hurdle is that you may have difficulty getting appropriate insurance; from what I have read insurers are still reluctant to provide insurance. Maybe the lack of accidents on such machines means they don't have enough statistics to decide the risk/cost?
Oldjohnw
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Re: Who needs more than 250W?

Post by Oldjohnw »

1. I don't have a Range Rover.
2. I have never been to a Tesco Metro.
John
Merlin
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Re: Who needs more than 250W?

Post by Merlin »

stodd wrote: 5 Jul 2021, 4:55pm Nobody (at least, nobody here) is suggesting that 'right' be taken away. As I understand it an s-pedalec is classified under regulations as a moped, even if your preferred machine will look very different from most machines classified as 'moped'. You seem to agree that there isn't an issue with the right being associated with appropriate responsibilities.

The biggest hurdle is that you may have difficulty getting appropriate insurance; from what I have read insurers are still reluctant to provide insurance. Maybe the lack of accidents on such machines means they don't have enough statistics to decide the risk/cost?
As I understand it stodd, S Pedalecs are illegal on UK roads.I'm just saying that this is irrational. We need them. They can revolutionise urban travel - but people need to show a little vision of the future rather than those like John, seemingly longing for their past.
Jdsk
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Re: Who needs more than 250W?

Post by Jdsk »

Merlin wrote: 5 Jul 2021, 6:19pmAs I understand it stodd, S Pedalecs are illegal on UK roads.
https://ebiketips.road.cc/content/advic ... he-uk-1637

They're not illegal and are treated as mopeds.

Jonathan
Oldjohnw
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Re: Who needs more than 250W?

Post by Oldjohnw »

I don't see how my thoughts above mean I am living in the past. Everything needs regulating and at some point we reach the limit. If the speed were increased to 20mph that would be a limit which some would object to.

I have an ebike. Some say they would rather give up cycling than get such a monstrosity. That seems to me to be living in the past.

And, of course, anyone who wants to exceed 15mph is perfectly free to do so, as I did yesterday.
Last edited by Oldjohnw on 5 Jul 2021, 7:54pm, edited 1 time in total.
John
Nigel
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Re: Who needs more than 250W?

Post by Nigel »

Jdsk wrote: 5 Jul 2021, 6:24pm
Merlin wrote: 5 Jul 2021, 6:19pmAs I understand it stodd, S Pedalecs are illegal on UK roads.
https://ebiketips.road.cc/content/advic ... he-uk-1637

They're not illegal and are treated as mopeds.
Yes, and the licensing process outlined probably works. But, I'd be checking about the MOT as well - I have a feeling it might be tricky to get a S-pedalec through a UK MOT test, because the S-pedalec will lack things which are mandatory for a moped registered against UK C&U regulations. I'd suggest checking the lighting and audible warning sections of the MOT carefully before spending a lot on a bike which might be "MOT fail" at 3 years old.
peterb
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Re: Who needs more than 250W?

Post by peterb »

I have an Orbea Gain, 250W, in the UK top electric-powered speed is 15.5mph MPH. I understand that in the USA the top electric-powered speed of the same model is 20 MPH. It's not a moped in the USA, but would be here. Makes no sense to me. Different rules, different law, arbitrary, but the law's the law, even if it's an ass
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