Who needs more than 250W?

Electrically assisted bikes, trikes, etc. that are legal in the UK
Nigel
Posts: 463
Joined: 25 Feb 2007, 6:29pm

Re: Who needs more than 250W?

Post by Nigel »

I know my riding speed isn't "road club" speed, so I ride with people who don't go that fast.

Find a group which rides at your speed. That could include younger/fitter riders who are willing to slow down for you.


- Nigel
nez
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Joined: 19 Jun 2008, 12:11am

Re: Who needs more than 250W?

Post by nez »

Merlin wrote: 1 Jul 2021, 9:40am
Oldjohnw wrote: 1 Jul 2021, 7:19am How does an ebike particularly generate speed downhill?
Weight.

With cornering it's the centre of gravity.

It's basic physics - cornering could be enhanced should the bike have an incredibly low centre of gravity it doesn't of course - hence you have more weight fighting to not turn.

With "average speed" try it by all means. You will find most of the time you are riding at 17-18 mph - unless you are spectacularly unfit in which case a group ride is probably nor for you. Peter's spot on with that.
17-18 mph is an unlikely average on a normal ebike. It's between 27 & 29 kph. I've done over 2000k on my ebike and and I don't hang about. My avg over the 2000 is just under 20kph or 2/3 of your 18 mph and I don't think riding a 25 kilo bike using the current rules would go much faster, even with a super-fit young chap on it. I only really use the electric feature for hill climbing. The electric feature is great for traffic stop start but I don't think it does much when you're rolling on the flat as it cuts out completely at 25 kph - the difference between 25 kph on the flat and 40 kph is enormous as you have to provide all the power from your legs on a 25 kg bike!
Blondie
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Joined: 23 May 2021, 5:11pm

Re: Who needs more than 250W?

Post by Blondie »

peterb wrote: 1 Jul 2021, 10:59am
Blondie wrote: 1 Jul 2021, 10:49am
peterb wrote: 1 Jul 2021, 9:12am

There is a big difference between average and maximum. To average 15mph on an ebike means riding considerable distances at well over 15 mph, without any assistance. No doubt many ebike riders can do this, but for many who are riding for reasons of age or disability this can be difficult.
Averages are usually most effected by speeds going uphill. E bikes have a distinct advantage here and my experience is that they will mostly out pace us middle aged folk on normal bikes. Keeping up on an e bike is not a problem unless with fit younger riders.
- or with riders of any age who maintain a speed above the ebike cut off speed over more than short distances. A club ride with the ebike rider yoyo-ing off the front on hills and then dropping off the back on the flat is not very satisfactory. Dropping unassisted riders on every hill is a quick way of becoming unpopular. I try and ride with the group in the way I always rode - as part of the group.
Sometimes we need to accept the speed of our younger years is gone. You seem to be seeking external youth with the ebike seen as a solution. Join the slower group rides and enjoy. If friends aren’t prepared to ride slower to accommodate you, what kinds of friends are they?
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[XAP]Bob
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Joined: 26 Sep 2008, 4:12pm

Re: Who needs more than 250W?

Post by [XAP]Bob »

nez wrote: 1 Jul 2021, 1:32pm 17-18 mph is an unlikely average on a normal ebike. It's between 27 & 29 kph. I've done over 2000k on my ebike and and I don't hang about. My avg over the 2000 is just under 20kph or 2/3 of your 18 mph and I don't think riding a 25 kilo bike using the current rules would go much faster, even with a super-fit young chap on it. I only really use the electric feature for hill climbing. The electric feature is great for traffic stop start but I don't think it does much when you're rolling on the flat as it cuts out completely at 25 kph - the difference between 25 kph on the flat and 40 kph is enormous as you have to provide all the power from your legs on a 25 kg bike!
I used to average 17 commuting 15 miles... That was on a fully kitted out for commuting ICE sprint (dynamo lighting, fully mudguards/rack/sidepods, full toolkit, spare layers). 250W hub motor at the back.

Picking a random commute home:
Screenshot 2021-07-01 at 15.44.20.png
Screenshot 2021-07-01 at 15.44.20.png (20.66 KiB) Viewed 818 times
But then that's someone who was commuting 15 miles twice a day 5 days a week, 45 weeks a year - and I assert that nothing beats commuting fitness (at least without being professional sports people)
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
peterb
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Re: Who needs more than 250W?

Post by peterb »

- but why an ebike if you are averaging well above the cut off of 15.5 mph? Most of your journey must be unassisted.
peterb
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Joined: 2 Dec 2017, 10:13am

Re: Who needs more than 250W?

Post by peterb »

Blondie wrote: 1 Jul 2021, 2:13pm
peterb wrote: 1 Jul 2021, 10:59am
Blondie wrote: 1 Jul 2021, 10:49am

Averages are usually most effected by speeds going uphill. E bikes have a distinct advantage here and my experience is that they will mostly out pace us middle aged folk on normal bikes. Keeping up on an e bike is not a problem unless with fit younger riders.
- or with riders of any age who maintain a speed above the ebike cut off speed over more than short distances. A club ride with the ebike rider yoyo-ing off the front on hills and then dropping off the back on the flat is not very satisfactory. Dropping unassisted riders on every hill is a quick way of becoming unpopular. I try and ride with the group in the way I always rode - as part of the group.
Sometimes we need to accept the speed of our younger years is gone. You seem to be seeking external youth with the ebike seen as a solution. Join the slower group rides and enjoy. If friends aren’t prepared to ride slower to accommodate you, what kinds of friends are they?
The ebike enables me to continue cycling. I am 74, I am 61kg, very fit, but have developed peripheral arterial disease which affects the blood supply to my leg muscles. Given the assistance offered by my Orbea Gain e-road bike I am perfectly capable of riding with a club group at a reasonable steady pace, I am not in search of eternal youth. The ebike actually is a solution for me.
nez
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Joined: 19 Jun 2008, 12:11am

Re: Who needs more than 250W?

Post by nez »

peterb wrote: 1 Jul 2021, 4:15pm - but why an ebike if you are averaging well above the cut off of 15.5 mph? Most of your journey must be unassisted.
Hills I expect. Even assisted I can’t avg 25kph but the poster is on an etrike, which is as fast uphill and faster down
Blondie
Posts: 239
Joined: 23 May 2021, 5:11pm

Re: Who needs more than 250W?

Post by Blondie »

peterb wrote: 1 Jul 2021, 4:44pm
Blondie wrote: 1 Jul 2021, 2:13pm
peterb wrote: 1 Jul 2021, 10:59am

- or with riders of any age who maintain a speed above the ebike cut off speed over more than short distances. A club ride with the ebike rider yoyo-ing off the front on hills and then dropping off the back on the flat is not very satisfactory. Dropping unassisted riders on every hill is a quick way of becoming unpopular. I try and ride with the group in the way I always rode - as part of the group.
Sometimes we need to accept the speed of our younger years is gone. You seem to be seeking external youth with the ebike seen as a solution. Join the slower group rides and enjoy. If friends aren’t prepared to ride slower to accommodate you, what kinds of friends are they?
The ebike enables me to continue cycling. I am 74, I am 61kg, very fit, but have developed peripheral arterial disease which affects the blood supply to my leg muscles. Given the assistance offered by my Orbea Gain e-road bike I am perfectly capable of riding with a club group at a reasonable steady pace, I am not in search of eternal youth. The ebike actually is a solution for me.
There we go then, no more assistance needed. I’d also question the statement very fit if you can’t keep up without assistance. Were very fit would be more accurate, but sadly, the arterial disease robbed you of that.

Main thing is you can still get out on your ebike and enjoy this past time.
Merlin
Posts: 38
Joined: 8 Apr 2021, 8:47pm

Re: Who needs more than 250W?

Post by Merlin »

Read it wrongly...oops
Last edited by Merlin on 1 Jul 2021, 11:44pm, edited 2 times in total.
Merlin
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Joined: 8 Apr 2021, 8:47pm

Re: Who needs more than 250W?

Post by Merlin »

peterb wrote: 1 Jul 2021, 4:15pm - but why an ebike if you are averaging well above the cut off of 15.5 mph? Most of your journey must be unassisted.
I have a brain injury so can no longer ride unassisted safely. Before that, I rode 80,000km and climbed over a million meters in 5 years.
nez
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Joined: 19 Jun 2008, 12:11am

Re: Who needs more than 250W?

Post by nez »

Merlin wrote: 1 Jul 2021, 6:32pm
nez wrote: 1 Jul 2021, 1:32pm
17-18 mph is an unlikely average on a normal ebike. It's between 27 & 29 kph. I've done over 2000k on my ebike and and I don't hang about. My avg over the 2000 is just under 20kph or 2/3 of your 18 mph and I don't think riding a 25 kilo bike using the current rules would go much faster, even with a super-fit young chap on it. I only really use the electric feature for hill climbing. The electric feature is great for traffic stop start but I don't think it does much when you're rolling on the flat as it cuts out completely at 25 kph - the difference between 25 kph on the flat and 40 kph is enormous as you have to provide all the power from your legs on a 25 kg bike!
Ah I see.

We go quite a bit faster than that - even in the Alps and Dolomites.
Good luck. I’ll try one some day!
peterb
Posts: 392
Joined: 2 Dec 2017, 10:13am

Re: Who needs more than 250W?

Post by peterb »

Blondie wrote: 1 Jul 2021, 6:25pm
peterb wrote: 1 Jul 2021, 4:44pm
Blondie wrote: 1 Jul 2021, 2:13pm

Sometimes we need to accept the speed of our younger years is gone. You seem to be seeking external youth with the ebike seen as a solution. Join the slower group rides and enjoy. If friends aren’t prepared to ride slower to accommodate you, what kinds of friends are they?
The ebike enables me to continue cycling. I am 74, I am 61kg, very fit, but have developed peripheral arterial disease which affects the blood supply to my leg muscles. Given the assistance offered by my Orbea Gain e-road bike I am perfectly capable of riding with a club group at a reasonable steady pace, I am not in search of eternal youth. The ebike actually is a solution for me.
There we go then, no more assistance needed. I’d also question the statement very fit if you can’t keep up without assistance. Were very fit would be more accurate, but sadly, the arterial disease robbed you of that.

Main thing is you can still get out on your ebike and enjoy this past time.
Past time?? Of course - by definition I can't be physically fit if I have PAD, but I bet I'm a lot fitter in other respects than many my age. Just give me an extra 2 mph before cut off and I'd be content. :D
Merlin
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Joined: 8 Apr 2021, 8:47pm

Re: Who needs more than 250W?

Post by Merlin »

nez wrote: 1 Jul 2021, 6:57pm
Good luck. I’ll try one some day!
Do Nez and if it were me, I would go for one of those with the hub based motor is you are going to keep going on the road. Particularly as you maybe age or start to gain weight. For that purpose (for climbing as a normal club rider) they are great and the new hub based ones only weigh 12-14 kilos.

I'm just wanting assistance on the flat because of my health and cannot see any reason for the limitation being where it is. 25kph when I ride on the flat at 28/29kph. 30 kph seems attractive for ageing road cyclists and no more dangerous given the advent of - for instance lighter weight ebikes and disc brakes.
.
Last edited by Merlin on 1 Jul 2021, 11:40pm, edited 1 time in total.
Merlin
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Joined: 8 Apr 2021, 8:47pm

Re: Who needs more than 250W?

Post by Merlin »

I'm with Peter here.
james01
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Joined: 6 Aug 2007, 4:48am

Re: Who needs more than 250W?

Post by james01 »

My wife uses an electric bike, I borrow it very occasionally. I reckon that the EU got it just right with the 250 watt/ 25 kph limit. It is after all a powered vehicle and should have been treated as such, with all of the red tape that would involve, so the exemption for low-powered electric bikes is a concession for which we should be grateful.
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