Touring with an ebike

Electrically assisted bikes, trikes, etc. that are legal in the UK
John Gray
Posts: 21
Joined: 29 Jan 2014, 3:22pm

Touring with an ebike

Post by John Gray »

OK, I know this topic is by no means new, so forgive me.

My touring bike for a number of years has been a Thorn Nomad. Heavy duty, but met my needs, and we have had some fabulous adventures together. Like others, I have been struck down by heart disease. To cut a long medical story short, my cardiologist was persuaded to approve my returning to touring by my arguments that I would buy an ebike, and monitor my heartrate closely. I have the technology for the monitoring, and now need to choose my ebike. A typical tour for me would have lasted two weeks or so, somewhere in Europe, and covered around 1000 miles, over a variety of terrain. I have to accept that those days might be over. I know electricity will help support my cycling, but I am also concerned about travel to the start and home from the finish of a tour, and the need to manhandle the bike on and off planes and/or trains and ferries.

I really don't know how to proceed. I know little about ebikes, and browsing this forum has thrown at me a lot of names I did not know and factors I had not thought of. Can anyone recommend an 'Idiots Guide' or similar, which will help me find my way?

The only bikes I have looked at so far are Ribble, partly because they are local heroes here in Lancashire. They boast the lightest of ebikes, which seems like a plus, and have ebikes that don't look like ebikes, which also appeals. However, they achieve that by concealing the battery within the frame, which could present a difficulty in accessing power for charging if I am staying in hostels.
jags
Posts: 636
Joined: 3 Oct 2007, 3:11pm

Re: Touring with an ebike

Post by jags »

convert your Thorn ,save you a fortune on a new bike.
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simonineaston
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Joined: 9 May 2007, 1:06pm
Location: ...at a cricket ground

Re: Touring with an ebike

Post by simonineaston »

I agree. While not directly comparable, my own experience of owning and liking a bike before and after converting has been a great success. My 'leccy Brompton is still very much like it's pre-'leccy self. :-)
S
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
jo' bo
Posts: 121
Joined: 8 May 2021, 8:21pm

Re: Touring with an ebike

Post by jo' bo »

John Gray wrote: 15 May 2021, 8:53pm OK, I know this topic is by no means new, so forgive me.

My touring bike for a number of years has been a Thorn Nomad. Heavy duty, but met my needs, and we have had some fabulous adventures together. Like others, I have been struck down by heart disease. To cut a long medical story short, my cardiologist was persuaded to approve my returning to touring by my arguments that I would buy an ebike, and monitor my heartrate closely. I have the technology for the monitoring, and now need to choose my ebike. A typical tour for me would have lasted two weeks or so, somewhere in Europe, and covered around 1000 miles, over a variety of terrain. I have to accept that those days might be over. I know electricity will help support my cycling, but I am also concerned about travel to the start and home from the finish of a tour, and the need to manhandle the bike on and off planes and/or trains and ferries.

I really don't know how to proceed. I know little about ebikes, and browsing this forum has thrown at me a lot of names I did not know and factors I had not thought of. Can anyone recommend an 'Idiots Guide' or similar, which will help me find my way?

The only bikes I have looked at so far are Ribble, partly because they are local heroes here in Lancashire. They boast the lightest of ebikes, which seems like a plus, and have ebikes that don't look like ebikes, which also appeals. However, they achieve that by concealing the battery within the frame, which could present a difficulty in accessing power for charging if I am staying in hostels.
They generally wont let you put your own luggage on the plane, they are a bit funny like that, they do however let you ride your bike on to a ferry, between the two you should be ok,
.the bigest issue you face is getting somewhere you can charge it up before it runs out

Why not stop in the uk, and go a bit gentle till you have the hang of it all, you can always get on a train and come home if it all goes pear shaped, chill youl have a great time, take the advice to stick a motor on the front lts, by far the cheapest option and you know what your getting, your old bike back, with a bit of help,
jags
Posts: 636
Joined: 3 Oct 2007, 3:11pm

Re: Touring with an ebike

Post by jags »

im kinda guessing your having problems getting up hill on a loaded bike im in the same boat no bother on the flat but hills kill me so i have on order an electric front wheel 250watt battery just enough to help my on the dreaded hills supposed to be good for 50km.

i bought a cube touring electric bike hated it send it back ..
i cant give you heads up on my wheel yet because i havent got it yet the postage to ireland is dire.
i had 4 thorn bikes great bikes the nomad is a beast sherpa every bit as good the audax is better than both.

but im not riding a class boardman love it.

jags
stodd
Posts: 705
Joined: 6 Jun 2018, 10:24am

Re: Touring with an ebike

Post by stodd »

jo' bo wrote: 15 May 2021, 10:06pm They generally wont let you put your own luggage on the plane.
You will not be able to take any significant ebike battery on a plane. The regulations seem laxer than I thought, and as confused as I expected. If you have a lightweight helper motor that you are not using for much of a ride a small battery might be enough.

https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-scr ... watt-hours
Lithium batteries with more than 100 watt hours may be allowed in carry-on bags with airline approval. One spare battery, not exceeding 300 watt hours, or two spare batteries, not exceeding 160 watt hours each, are permitted in carry-on bags. For more information, see the FAA regulations on batteries.

OR ???
https://www.canyon.com/en-gb/blog-conte ... %20luggage.
Unfortunately, you won’t be able to take your battery with you on the flight. The lithium batteries on almost all electric bikes are prohibited. Until recently, 300 Wh Li batteries were allowed, but now the maximum is 100 Wh batteries packed inside your carryon luggage.
jo' bo
Posts: 121
Joined: 8 May 2021, 8:21pm

Re: Touring with an ebike

Post by jo' bo »

stodd wrote: 16 May 2021, 10:10am
jo' bo wrote: 15 May 2021, 10:06pm They generally wont let you put your own luggage on the plane.
You will not be able to take any significant ebike battery on a plane. The regulations seem laxer than I thought, and as confused as I expected. If you have a lightweight helper motor that you are not using for much of a ride a small battery might be enough.

https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-scr ... watt-hours
Lithium batteries with more than 100 watt hours may be allowed in carry-on bags with airline approval. One spare battery, not exceeding 300 watt hours, or two spare batteries, not exceeding 160 watt hours each, are permitted in carry-on bags. For more information, see the FAA regulations on batteries.

OR ???
https://www.canyon.com/en-gb/blog-conte ... %20luggage.
Unfortunately, you won’t be able to take your battery with you on the flight. The lithium batteries on almost all electric bikes are prohibited. Until recently, 300 Wh Li batteries were allowed, but now the maximum is 100 Wh batteries packed inside your carryon luggage.
Yes you are indeed correct, it did occur to me after I'd posted, they do have,an energy density comparable with TNT, so they have a point
Jdsk
Posts: 24478
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Touring with an ebike

Post by Jdsk »

jo' bo wrote: 16 May 2021, 11:00amYes you are indeed correct, it did occur to me after I'd posted, they do have,an energy density comparable with TNT, so they have a point
That doesn't sound right to me... any figures, please?

Thanks

Jonathan
jo' bo
Posts: 121
Joined: 8 May 2021, 8:21pm

Re: Touring with an ebike

Post by jo' bo »

Jdsk wrote: 16 May 2021, 11:11am
jo' bo wrote: 16 May 2021, 11:00amYes you are indeed correct, it did occur to me after I'd posted, they do have,an energy density comparable with TNT, so they have a point
That doesn't sound right to me... any figures, please?

Thanks

Jonathan
I did say comparable and not the same, but yes, it's in that bracket, of things you really don't want an uncontrolled release of,il have a look later, it's about 5 years ago I researched this for a works project
Jdsk
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Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Touring with an ebike

Post by Jdsk »

I get TNT at about 4,000 kJ/ kg and lithium ion batteries at around 100 to 900 kJ/ kg.

Jonathan
pq
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Joined: 12 Nov 2007, 11:41pm
Location: St Antonin Noble Val, France
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Re: Touring with an ebike

Post by pq »

I know almost nothing about ebikes but I can tell you a little story which might be useful.

We had a very elderly Swiss couple staying with us (in France) a few years back. They were both in their 90s and had been touring all their lives. Eventually it got too much for them so they bought ebikes and just carried on. When they stayed with us they'd ridden to near Toulouse from Switzerland, and were heading to Italy with the finale being an Alpine crossing to get home.

They had very expensive electric touring bikes and were carrying a lot of gear. They said with the motor there was no point travelling light. They each had a spare battery and so could do 100 miles between charges, even in hilly terrain, but in truth they were able to charge in cafes, in restaurants, on camp sites, and in hotels. They said it had never been a problem. Of course they didn't have to cross the channel...

I very much hope I'll be doing that when I'm their age.
One link to your website is enough. G
Jdsk
Posts: 24478
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Touring with an ebike

Post by Jdsk »

John Gray wrote: 15 May 2021, 8:53pmI know electricity will help support my cycling, but I am also concerned about travel to the start and home from the finish of a tour, and the need to manhandle the bike on and off planes and/or trains and ferries.
How about using your own non-human powered vehicle or hiring one to get you to where you want to cycle?

Are you thinking of camping or hotels etc?

It's only anecdotal but all of the people that I've met who were touring with eBikes have said that charging isn't a big problem, as above.

Members of my family now have an Orbea Gain D20 and a Tern HSD and are very happy with them.

I hope that you can find a solution.

Jonathan
jo' bo
Posts: 121
Joined: 8 May 2021, 8:21pm

Re: Touring with an ebike

Post by jo' bo »

Jdsk wrote: 16 May 2021, 11:40am I get TNT at about 4,000 kJ/ kg and lithium ion batteries at around 100 to 900 kJ/ kg.

Jonathan
So about 25% of TNT ? That's fairly explosive ?
Jdsk
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Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Touring with an ebike

Post by Jdsk »

Energy density isn't a measure of explosiveness.

And you only get to 25% by taking a bit more than the highest current (!) figure for lithium batteries. I very much doubt that any mainstream eBike battery is anywhere near there. Or that any commercial lithium battery was at 1,000 kJ/ Kg "5 years ago".

But they can be dangerous, and stodd has already described the restrictions on carriage, which is what's important to this thread.

Jonathan
jo' bo
Posts: 121
Joined: 8 May 2021, 8:21pm

Re: Touring with an ebike

Post by jo' bo »

Jdsk wrote: 16 May 2021, 12:09pm Energy density isn't a measure of explosiveness.

And you only get to 25% by taking a bit more than the highest current (!) figure for lithium batteries. I very much doubt that any mainstream eBike battery is anywhere near there. Or that any commercial lithium battery was at 1,000 kJ/ Kg "5 years ago".

But they can be dangerous, and stodd has already described the restrictions on carriage, which is what's important to this thread.

Jonathan
Yes it is, it's a measure of what will happen when you have a dramatic uncontrolled release of energy

No I got 25% by dividing 900 in your your quoted figure of ABOUT 4000, if you can be vague so can I. The very essence of improvements in comercial battery technology has been to increase the energy density , that how they keep getting better year on year

So as I said the energy density is COMPARABLE with TNT

That much is obvious as now both of us have compared it
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