Range extender

Electrically assisted bikes, trikes, etc. that are legal in the UK
Sgpeg2016
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Joined: 14 Mar 2021, 4:02pm

Range extender

Post by Sgpeg2016 »

I am absolutly loving my Orbea Gain. It has transformed my cycling and now a 40 mile plus ride is a breeze not a nightmare.

Did 43 miles (hilly) on Sat with 21% battery left. 47 today (flatter) with 31% left. So all good.

But have signed up for an event (fun not serious) in July which is 54 miles. Will I make it and do I want to be worried about the dreaded red flashing battery light?

So my question is - has anyone got a range extender for an Orbea?

I know they are dear and not available yet but I see the Orbea one is generally around £550 but I am worth it !

Assuming the cheaper (£300 ish) specialised one not suitable?
oldtimer99
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Joined: 19 Mar 2013, 8:26pm

Re: Range extender

Post by oldtimer99 »

Interesting stats!
I love my Orbea too .... but get a lot more miles than that. 55miles, 1000 ft of climb left me with 60% battery, so I guess its all down to the setting we use.
Alas, can't help you with the range extender issue, but great to hear from another Gain smiler....
Nigel
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Re: Range extender

Post by Nigel »

Given that both rides indicate the bike would make 54 miles, why do you need anything else ? One ride would "just make it", the other "makes it easily, and would go for almost 70".
stodd
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Joined: 6 Jun 2018, 10:24am

Re: Range extender

Post by stodd »

Range on any ebike depends a huge amount on settings, terrain and conditions. Even though it is for a very different kind of ebike, the Bosch range assistant will give quite a good idea of range, and a very good idea of variability in different circumstances. You need a little interpretation on battery size and what the settings mean. https://www.bosch-ebike.com/en/service/range-assistant/ You can easily see ranges of over 100 miles on a 400wh battery, but also twiddle the parameters a bit and easily see the same battery give well under 30 miles.

The Gain is probably more variable than most. Many riders (not me if I had one) will be doing well over 16mph almost all the time on the flat, and at that speed it should not be proving any assistance and therefore not using any battery.
Pebble
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Re: Range extender

Post by Pebble »

I thought it was going to be a thread about
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freeflow
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Re: Range extender

Post by freeflow »

Everyone has a range extender for an e-bike. They are called legs. Keep the e-bike power turned down/off as much as you can and build up the ability of your legs. You'll soon get a decent range. Mrs F has a new Synapse Neo gravel bike, albeit with a bigger battery that the Gain. She tries to ride as much as possible without power on or just in eco mode. A few weeks ago she managed her first flattish 100km ride finishing with 3/5 bars still remining on her battery pack. Mrs F is a 62 year old Type I diabetic with a BMI of <cough> , a shed load of other medication, and a tendency to get stress/exercise induced asthma. If you think I'm proud of her you'd be dead right.
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simonineaston
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Re: Range extender

Post by simonineaston »

If you think I'm proud of her you'd be dead right.
Cool! That's a great ride :D
S
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robgul
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Re: Range extender

Post by robgul »

freeflow wrote: 15 Jun 2021, 10:13pm Everyone has a range extender for an e-bike. They are called legs. Keep the e-bike power turned down/off as much as you can and build up the ability of your legs. You'll soon get a decent range. Mrs F has a new Synapse Neo gravel bike, albeit with a bigger battery that the Gain. She tries to ride as much as possible without power on or just in eco mode. A few weeks ago she managed her first flattish 100km ride finishing with 3/5 bars still remining on her battery pack. Mrs F is a 62 year old Type I diabetic with a BMI of <cough> , a shed load of other medication, and a tendency to get stress/exercise induced asthma. If you think I'm proud of her you'd be dead right.
I had a Gain for about 2.5 years - loved it but didn't use it enough so sold it - never any issues with battery life on 70-80 mile rides - BUT I did tend to switch off when on the flat and just use the juice for the hills.

One reason I didn' use it much as I regained fitness and managed most rides I did on either Ti or carbon road bike.
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peterb
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Joined: 2 Dec 2017, 10:13am

Re: Range extender

Post by peterb »

I have a Gain too. My absolute maximum range on a flattish route is in around 50miles - riding above the cut off speed as much as legs allow, switching to nil assistance whenever I can and using the lowest level of assistance as much as possible. On a more hilly challenging ride maybe 40 miles. I have peripheral vascular disease - the blood supply to my leg muscles is restricted. However I don't understand how others are getting such high mileage. How does the system pick up my muscle weakness?
stodd
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Re: Range extender

Post by stodd »

peterb wrote: 16 Jun 2021, 9:31am I have a Gain too. My absolute maximum range on a flattish route is in around 50miles - riding above the cut off speed as much as legs allow, switching to nil assistance whenever I can and using the lowest level of assistance as much as possible. On a more hilly challenging ride maybe 40 miles. I have peripheral vascular disease - the blood supply to my leg muscles is restricted. However I don't understand how others are getting such high mileage. How does the system pick up my muscle weakness?
On the flat, the system will use maximum power somewhere around 12-15mph, dropping to no power by 17mph (all approx). The range difference could come from riding above the cut off speed as much as legs allow; for a rider with just a bit more leg power that could be almost all the time, whereas for you it may well be considerably less. If there were significant hills I'd expect to see distances drop by more than 20% (50=>40) even with a little assistance on the flat. That smallish difference suggests you may be getting more assistance on the flat than you think you are, and that is where the system is picking up your muscle weakness.
peterb
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Re: Range extender

Post by peterb »

stodd wrote: 16 Jun 2021, 10:51am On the flat, the system will use maximum power somewhere around 12-15mph, dropping to no power by 17mph (all approx). The range difference could come from riding above the cut off speed as much as legs allow; for a rider with just a bit more leg power that could be almost all the time, whereas for you it may well be considerably less. If there were significant hills I'd expect to see distances drop by more than 20% (50=>40) even with a little assistance on the flat. That smallish difference suggests you may be getting more assistance on the flat than you think you are, and that is where the system is picking up your muscle weakness.
... so, essentially, and somewhat obviously, the less assistance used, the greater the range achieved. The fitter you are (the more leg power you have), the further you'll get.
stodd
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Re: Range extender

Post by stodd »

peterb wrote: 16 Jun 2021, 1:45pm ... so, essentially, and somewhat obviously, the less assistance used, the greater the range achieved. The fitter you are (the more leg power you have), the further you'll get.
Absolutely. The less obvious 'extra' is the way the 15mph details of the regulations can really amplify the effect.
Grandad
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Re: Range extender

Post by Grandad »

the less assistance used, the greater the range achieved.
I use my Orbea Gain motor to get to the flatlands beyond the uncomfortably steep hills between them and home. Average ride is 2 miles on the motor and 35-40 on leg power. Can I claim the record miles per charge :D

On the other hand I dare not calculate the cost per mile of the motor use :(

Pre motor I had to use the car to get over the hills
ChrisF
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Re: Range extender

Post by ChrisF »

stodd wrote: 16 Jun 2021, 10:51am On the flat, the system will use maximum power somewhere around 12-15mph, dropping to no power by 17mph (all approx).....
That's not quite right. If you have a UK or EU system, the motor will cut out at 25kph (15.4 mph). The power used below that will depend on the power setting but also, more importantly perhaps, on how much effort you put in yourself.
If you can fit a smartphone to your bars (even temporarily) you can use the ebikemotion app to see how much power the motor is providing at any given time.
peterb wrote: 16 Jun 2021, 1:45pm ... so, essentially, and somewhat obviously, the less assistance used, the greater the range achieved. The fitter you are (the more leg power you have), the further you'll get.
Quite so. I'm reasonably fit and have just acquired a Scott Addict, (same motor and battery as the Gain). The other day I did 140km and 2000m of climbing, and that used pretty much all of the battery. The power setting was on 40% all the time; I didn't actually turn the motor 'off' manually but much of the time all the power was coming from my legs.

It must be so difficult for manufacturers to give a reasonable mileage indicator for an e-bike. For a reasonably fit cyclist, I think the range should be defined as meters climbed rather than km distance. I'm doing some more tests, over different rides, to try to quantify that.
Chris F, Cornwall
stodd
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Re: Range extender

Post by stodd »

ChrisF wrote: 17 Jun 2021, 7:16am That's not quite right. If you have a UK or EU system, the motor will cut out at 25kph (15.4 mph). The power used below that will depend on the power setting but also, more importantly perhaps, on how much effort you put in yourself.
I mostly agree. 25kph is the official limit, but there is tolerance in interpretation of the 25kph (15.534mph), and many manufacturers take advantage of that. Also on all but the most basic systems there is a ramp down rather than a cut-off; it should theoretically be ramped down to 0 by 25kph, but ?. The combination of those is why I said 17mph (about 10% above 15.4); by then you can be pretty sure a legal system will have reached 0 power.

Below that speed, for a given setting if you give more effort on a torque based system, the system will generate more power as well, so you'll go faster (unless you hit the power ramp speed). With a cadence system the system will keep generating the same power (approximately depending on efficiency curve); you'll still go faster but less so. You can only give more effort and keep to the same speed by changing settings (or by continuously applying the brakes which is certainly not good for range or for anything else).
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