Tongsheng TSDZ2

Electrically assisted bikes, trikes, etc. that are legal in the UK
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iandusud
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Tongsheng TSDZ2

Post by iandusud »

Hi, I'm thinking of installing a Tongsheng TSDZ2 on my cargo bike. I have seen it here

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3275979 ... b44c0d73af

This looks like a good price. I presume that the only other thing I will need is a suitable battery. Any suggestions as to where to buy a battery. I would prefer a rack mounted one.

Thanks, Ian
rjb
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Re: Tongsheng TSDZ2

Post by rjb »

Be interested to know if this would fit on a tandem in the stokers position. Does the drainpipe get in the way?. And can you fit the crossover drive on the left side.?
Have you thought about using power tool batteries. You can pick up batteries and chargers from Lidls and Aldi for less than £50. Pop a spare battery in your pannier to add extra range.

This is what Nano do for their Brompton conversions. :wink:
At the last count:- Peugeot 531 pro, Dawes Discovery Tandem, Dawes Kingpin X3, Raleigh 20 stowaway, 1965 Moulton deluxe, Falcon K2 MTB dropped bar tourer, Rudge Bi frame folder, Longstaff trike conversion on a Giant XTC 840 :D
iandusud
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Re: Tongsheng TSDZ2

Post by iandusud »

rjb wrote: 4 Sep 2021, 1:09pm Be interested to know if this would fit on a tandem in the stokers position. Does the drainpipe get in the way?. And can you fit the crossover drive on the left side.?
Have you thought about using power tool batteries. You can pick up batteries and chargers from Lidls and Aldi for less than £50. Pop a spare battery in your pannier to add extra range.

This is what Nano do for their Brompton conversions. :wink:
Re the drainpipe I don't know. I will have a similar issue with my cargo bike but I'm happy to cut and shut the horizontal spar if necessary.

For a tandem I would highly recommend putting the drive on the front and use your existing cranks, assuming they are square taper. This would allow you to keep a full set of gears at the back - always a good thing on a tandem.

Re power tool batteries. The limitations are available capacity (generally not more than 4ah) and voltage. In the case of the Nano they use a Bosch 36V aAh battery, which would give a fairly limited range and would need fairly regular charging. I think carrying a second battery would be highly recommended. These batteries cost around £125 a piece. So to get 12ah of charge it would cost £375 plus a charger (£45) which can only charge one battery at a time. You can a buy a dedicated ebike 36V 15ah battery with charger for £220, so considerably cheaper and no faffing around with changing batteries on the bike on the charger.
stodd
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Re: Tongsheng TSDZ2

Post by stodd »

iandusud wrote: 4 Sep 2021, 1:29pm For a tandem I would highly recommend putting the drive on the front and use your existing cranks, assuming they are square taper.
I agree it's well worth considering. We have a front electric hub tandem. Tandems have more weight relatively on the front so the front hub slipping issue that arises on regular front drive bikes has never arisen. Plus it gives two wheel drive; we have had several occasions (mainly uphill on slippy wet grass bridleway) where the rear wheel has lost traction but the front motor has kept us going. Marathon Plus tyres, not good at that sort of grip, but good for 95% of our riding.

Ours is a Woosh XF07 which is a little underpowered for a tandem; but it was only sensible choice available when we got it, and we only need level 2 of 5 most of the time. The fact it is underpowered makes it even more important that we kept the full gear range, and also may have helped prevent front slippage. I suspect a TSDZ2 would be a bit underpowered too, but at least you'd be running a crank drive more efficiently than our XF07 at hill climbing speeds.

With front wheel you don't change any of the transmission so it doesn't matter what sort of taper they have.

I don't think Woosh do TSDZ2 any more, but still have a useful fitting guide: https://wooshbikes.co.uk/manuals/TSDZ2.pdf
That may help you see if your could fit it. I've no experience of TSDZ2 at all, but they seem to crop up with faults on the Pedelecs forum more than most others, such as the Bafang equivalents.
iandusud
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Re: Tongsheng TSDZ2

Post by iandusud »

stodd wrote: 4 Sep 2021, 1:59pm
iandusud wrote: 4 Sep 2021, 1:29pm For a tandem I would highly recommend putting the drive on the front and use your existing cranks, assuming they are square taper.
I agree it's well worth considering. We have a front electric hub tandem. Tandems have more weight relatively on the front so the front hub slipping issue that arises on regular front drive bikes has never arisen. Plus it gives two wheel drive; we have had several occasions (mainly uphill on slippy wet grass bridleway) where the rear wheel has lost traction but the front motor has kept us going. Marathon Plus tyres, not good at that sort of grip, but good for 95% of our riding.

Ours is a Woosh XF07 which is a little underpowered for a tandem; but it was only sensible choice available when we got it, and we only need level 2 of 5 most of the time. The fact it is underpowered makes it even more important that we kept the full gear range, and also may have helped prevent front slippage. I suspect a TSDZ2 would be a bit underpowered too, but at least you'd be running a crank drive more efficiently than our XF07 at hill climbing speeds.

With front wheel you don't change any of the transmission so it doesn't matter what sort of taper they have.

I don't think Woosh do TSDZ2 any more, but still have a useful fitting guide: https://wooshbikes.co.uk/manuals/TSDZ2.pdf
That may help you see if your could fit it. I've no experience of TSDZ2 at all, but they seem to crop up with faults on the Pedelecs forum more than most others, such as the Bafang equivalents.

I actually meant fitting a Tongsheng Mid drive unit at the front. :)
rjb
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Re: Tongsheng TSDZ2

Post by rjb »

iandusud wrote: 4 Sep 2021, 2:15pm
I actually meant fitting a Tongsheng Mid drive unit at the front. :)
Any issue with the front being fitted with the eccentric.

Apologies for driifting this thread, but I know you also have a tandem. I would choose the mid drive over a front wheel then I don't loose the dynohub and makes front wheel removal easier.:wink:
At the last count:- Peugeot 531 pro, Dawes Discovery Tandem, Dawes Kingpin X3, Raleigh 20 stowaway, 1965 Moulton deluxe, Falcon K2 MTB dropped bar tourer, Rudge Bi frame folder, Longstaff trike conversion on a Giant XTC 840 :D
iandusud
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Re: Tongsheng TSDZ2

Post by iandusud »

rjb wrote: 4 Sep 2021, 2:26pm
iandusud wrote: 4 Sep 2021, 2:15pm
I actually meant fitting a Tongsheng Mid drive unit at the front. :)
Any issue with the front being fitted with the eccentric.

Apologies for driifting this thread, but I know you also have a tandem. I would choose the mid drive over a front wheel then I don't loose the dynohub and makes front wheel removal easier.:wink:
I think that the unit is designed to clamp to the chainstays so you would need to fabricate some sort of bracket. As for the eccentric I don't know but the eccentric can be in one of two positions 180 degrees apart so I would think it would need to be oriented towards the bottom of the shell.
the snail
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Re: Tongsheng TSDZ2

Post by the snail »

rjb wrote: 4 Sep 2021, 2:26pm
iandusud wrote: 4 Sep 2021, 2:15pm
I actually meant fitting a Tongsheng Mid drive unit at the front. :)
Any issue with the front being fitted with the eccentric.

Apologies for driifting this thread, but I know you also have a tandem. I would choose the mid drive over a front wheel then I don't loose the dynohub
and makes front wheel removal easier.:wink:
Almost certainly the tsdz won't fit on an eccentric bb. There is very limited clearance between the motor and bb shell, such that often the cable guide has to be removed. Also the chain line with a crank drive may be a problem. I think a front hub drive is the easiest solution for a tandem.
iandusud
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Re: Tongsheng TSDZ2

Post by iandusud »

the snail wrote: 4 Sep 2021, 9:27pm
rjb wrote: 4 Sep 2021, 2:26pm
iandusud wrote: 4 Sep 2021, 2:15pm
I actually meant fitting a Tongsheng Mid drive unit at the front. :)
Any issue with the front being fitted with the eccentric.

Apologies for driifting this thread, but I know you also have a tandem. I would choose the mid drive over a front wheel then I don't loose the dynohub
and makes front wheel removal easier.:wink:
Almost certainly the tsdz won't fit on an eccentric bb. There is very limited clearance between the motor and bb shell, such that often the cable guide has to be removed. Also the chain line with a crank drive may be a problem. I think a front hub drive is the easiest solution for a tandem.
Have a look at this:

https://www.electricbike.com/using-an-e ... ser-frame/

Looks like it's doable. However it has occurred to me that the issue is likely to be the with the screws that hold the eccentric (either grub screws of clamp screws) and their associated lugs. The solution if it's grub screws would be to grind off the lugs and use an eccentric with an expander like this

https://www.tritoncycles.co.uk/componen ... JBEALw_wcB
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bikes4two
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Re: Tongsheng TSDZ2

Post by bikes4two »

With regard to fitting the TSDZ2 to the front BB on a tandem and how to secure the motor, I recentlycame across the use of a 'P' shaped clip deployed in securing the motor to the boom tube on a recumbent trike.- go to eco-bike.com and search for 'boom clamp'.

Maybe such an arrangement would work on a tandem?
Attachments
boom-clamp.jpg
Without my stoker, every trip would only be half a journey
rjb
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Re: Tongsheng TSDZ2

Post by rjb »

I see you can fit a bafang motor in the stokers bb. Came across this on the trike forum.

Image

You can also keep the crossover drive on the left side although this one has it on the right.
This will be my preferred solution when i come it it. Mrs rjb was asking me today if i could fit an electric conversion, she is beginning to find it hard work, and i have noticed this. :wink:

Can you do the same with the Tongsheng and fit it as shown on the trike.
At the last count:- Peugeot 531 pro, Dawes Discovery Tandem, Dawes Kingpin X3, Raleigh 20 stowaway, 1965 Moulton deluxe, Falcon K2 MTB dropped bar tourer, Rudge Bi frame folder, Longstaff trike conversion on a Giant XTC 840 :D
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bikes4two
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Re: Tongsheng TSDZ2

Post by bikes4two »

Can you do the same with the Tongsheng and fit it as shown on the trike.
That's a tricky one to answer as I've not tried is. I've just taken a pic of the TSDZ2 on my old tourer and from that, there does look a strong possibility that it would fit but a lot depends on the size/diameter of the boom tube in relation to the BBshell.

In that trike pic, as you say the sync chain is on the same side as the drive chain - I was watching a YT vid the other day where a recumbent trike had two chain rings on the drive side on a TSDZ2, so clearly the inner chainring of that pair could be used as the sync chainring.

In this post on the pedalec forun, the tandem sync chain is on the NDS and you'll see that with the TSDZ2 in the rear BB the rear synce chainring only just clears the TSDZ2 motor housing.

https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/thread ... ost-631536

Our tandem uses a Rohloff so two eccentric BB to consider. I suspect that if I were to add an electric motor I'd very likely go for a front hub motor using a KT Controller that uses Torque Simulation. I put such a controller on a simple ebike last year and the ride experience compared to the OEM speed controller was greatly improved.
Attachments
TSDZ2.jpg
Without my stoker, every trip would only be half a journey
iandusud
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Re: Tongsheng TSDZ2

Post by iandusud »

The disadvantage of fitting a mid-drive motor to the stoker's BB is that you are stuck with a single chainring of around 42t. This seriously limits both the higher but particularly the lower gears. Even with electric assist this would concern me unless you know that you will either never need to use it without steep hills or will always have the electric assist available. Personally I could live without the higher gears using a cassette with an 11t sprocket, although I would miss the ability to get some speed up in the right conditions. If I was using this set up I think I would be looking at marrying it up with an 11-42 cassette. It is also worth checking the chainline as I've read that mid drives often have quite a wide chainline which can prove problematic when using the larger sprockets on the cassette.

Ian
rjb
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Re: Tongsheng TSDZ2

Post by rjb »

That was my concern with gear ratios. We currently have 13/32 on the back and 28/38/48 on the front. Rarely use the 48/13 so could dispense with the top gear and rarely use the very bottom. The electric assist I've read means you can live without the lowest gear so this may not be an issue. I've seen some adapt the single at the front to a double but no idea if the chainline becomes probamatical.
At the last count:- Peugeot 531 pro, Dawes Discovery Tandem, Dawes Kingpin X3, Raleigh 20 stowaway, 1965 Moulton deluxe, Falcon K2 MTB dropped bar tourer, Rudge Bi frame folder, Longstaff trike conversion on a Giant XTC 840 :D
iandusud
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Re: Tongsheng TSDZ2

Post by iandusud »

rjb wrote: 24 Oct 2021, 3:54pm That was my concern with gear ratios. We currently have 13/32 on the back and 28/38/48 on the front. Rarely use the 48/13 so could dispense with the top gear and rarely use the very bottom. The electric assist I've read means you can live without the lowest gear so this may not be an issue. I've seen some adapt the single at the front to a double but no idea if the chainline becomes probamatical.
We have 26/36 bottom gear and use it regularly. We do most of our cycling in the Yorkshire Dales and often with camping gear! Sounds like this set up may well work for you. On the other hand if rarely use your bottom gear why do you want electric assist? :D
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