Membership rates

Summer 2020 - Cycle Magazine announcement about membership changes
Mal43
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Joined: 13 Jul 2020, 8:53am

Re: Membership rates

Post by Mal43 »

@AndyK - Senior management costs - as measured by the remuneration paid to "key management personnel" - went down by £59,000. (Annual report page 74.)

Thank you for pointing that out.
MartinC
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Location: Bredon

Re: Membership rates

Post by MartinC »

Which makes my comment harsher than it should be and I apologise for not fact checking first. My underlying feeling remains that CUK is fast becoming a cookie cutter entity in the Charity sector administered by those who see their stay in CUK as largely just an episode in a Charity industry career. Charities that need to raise large sums of money to fund large relief schemes need professional fund raising expertise but I don't see CUK's role as much akin to Oxfam. I'm happy with CUK's objectives but they need a much more cycle/cyclist centric approach to defining a strategy to achieving them
roberts8
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Location: Surrey

Re: Membership rates

Post by roberts8 »

Not sure how statistically this is but if you look at the number of topics and assume that reflects the interest of the members not a few individuals at the top Campaigning is way down the list. Certainty reflects my order of interest.
backnotes
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Re: Membership rates

Post by backnotes »

AndyK wrote:Senior management costs - as measured by the remuneration paid to "key management personnel" - went down by £59,000. (Annual report page 74.)


That's a bit odd. The 2017-2018 Annual Report (p71) shows that there was one staff member on £110k - £120k in 2018, but that person is missing from the 2018-2019 report - does that mean that person repaid all their salary and then left Cycling UK?

2018-19 Annual report
Screenshot 2020-08-22 at 13.37.10.png

2017-18 Annual report
Screenshot 2020-08-22 at 13.37.47.png


Something else that's odd is that the 2018-19 Annual report shows that the number of senior managers earning £60k - £70k went up from 1 to 4 from 2018 to 2019, and yet total remuneration costs went down. Common sense says that 4 people earning £60k - £70k will cost roughly 4 times as much as one.

I suppose one question to ask is whether the incoming CEO will be paid more or less than the senior manager who was earning £100k - £120k in 2018 in the 2017-2018 accounts, but who had vanished by the following year. And someone should write a book about how to get 4 people earning more than £60k for less outlay than the cost of one person. Maybe we should also alert the authorities about the apparent mystery of Cycling UK senior executives being "disappeared" without trace from one year to the next :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
thirdcrank
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Re: Membership rates

Post by thirdcrank »

AndyK wrote: ... Senior management costs - as measured by the remuneration paid to "key management personnel" - went down by £59,000. (Annual report page 74.) ...


The bit I've underlined there seems to be central to this. I've no real understanding of what it means but once people start querying the arithmetic, I cannot help feeling it's a carefully chosen expression.

So much of this is perception.
PH
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Re: Membership rates

Post by PH »

thirdcrank wrote:
AndyK wrote: ... Senior management costs - as measured by the remuneration paid to "key management personnel" - went down by £59,000. (Annual report page 74.) ...


The bit I've underlined there seems to be central to this. I've no real understanding of what it means but once people start querying the arithmetic, I cannot help feeling it's a carefully chosen expression.

So much of this is perception.


If you look at backnotes extracts it tells you what those key management roles are.
There's a lot of deduction above from incomplete data, we have the number of people in certain bands, and a total cost of the key management personnel whether they're included in those bands or not.
I'm not really interested in individuals salaries, the overall cost and the value is what we ought to be considering.
thirdcrank
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Re: Membership rates

Post by thirdcrank »

When I posted "So much of this is perception" I decided to chop the next bit of what I had written.

If you give normal jobs grandiose titles, then people's perceptions come into it. A bit further up, I wrote "the sniping at the pay of staff is an extension of that."

Many people have come to mistrust data as in "lies, damned lies and statistics." That's particularly so when they are unhappy about something.
Jdsk
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Re: Membership rates

Post by Jdsk »

backnotes wrote:That's a bit odd. The 2017-2018 Annual Report (p71) shows that there was one staff member on £110k - £120k in 2018, but that person is missing from the 2018-2019 report - does that mean that person repaid all their salary and then left Cycling UK?

I can't follow that chain of logic, please could you fill in the gaps that lead to that possible explanation?

Thanks

Jonathan
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mjr
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Re: Membership rates

Post by mjr »

Jdsk wrote:
backnotes wrote:That's a bit odd. The 2017-2018 Annual Report (p71) shows that there was one staff member on £110k - £120k in 2018, but that person is missing from the 2018-2019 report - does that mean that person repaid all their salary and then left Cycling UK?

I can't follow that chain of logic, please could you fill in the gaps that lead to that possible explanation?

In short, the 2018-2019 report does not show the same numbers for 2018 as the 2017-2018 report and I think backnotes was clutching at straws for a possible explanation why the 2018 figures may have been revised.

It does look like a blooper that any trustee looking at both reports side-by-side should have noticed and questioned before publication IMO.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
backnotes
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Re: Membership rates

Post by backnotes »

mjr wrote: I think backnotes was clutching at straws for a possible explanation why the 2018 figures may have been revised..


Yes - exactly. I would have expected the 2018 column with the same total at the bottom to have the same entries above it, or a note of explanation in the later set of accounts.

What I am really asking is where the apparent saving in senior staff costs has come from. It looks as if there has been a change in the way salaries are considered, so the (presumably) CEO pay has been reduced from £110k - £120k to £80k - £90k for the same year. I suppose I will have to read the accounts to understand why. I am guessing it may be a change from giving salary + all benefits (pension, healthcare, bonus, but hopefully not a company car allowance!) to just salary. If that's been done across the board, that may be where the apparent saving has come from.

To be clear I have no quibble with paying the required rate to get the job done properly, or with any individual's pay at Cycling UK. The saving was pulled out of the hat like a white rabbit, and I just want to understand if it is a real saving or a change in how the figures are calculated. Sorry - I should have read through the accounts before posting.
backnotes
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Re: Membership rates

Post by backnotes »

.....and the answer was staring me straight in the face! The difference is that there were no redundancy costs in 2019, but there were in 2018, so most of the £59k apparent saving must have arisen from not having to pay these. So there's less spent on senior pay, but it is through not paying an exceptional one-off cost rather than a reduction.

That just leaves the apparently missing line about the person earning £110k to £120k for 2018 and potentially 2019 in the latest annual report, or fixing that in last year's report if it was an error there. That's less of a concern as it looks like a simple cut and paste kind of error rather than conjuring £59k from nowhere, which was a real head-scratcher.

Anyway, all good as it has got me to actually read the bit at the back of the report I generally skip over! Sorry for confusion caused by not spotting the redundancy costs that were there in plain sight.
Jdsk
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Re: Membership rates

Post by Jdsk »

Thanks for the explanations.

Jonathan
backnotes
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Re: Membership rates

Post by backnotes »

Apologies to Andy K and other forum users for getting completely the wrong end of several sticks here. (Only) in my head, Andy Ks statement that there was a £59k reduction in senior pay at Cycling UK, the increase in number of roles shown in the £60k to £70k pay band from 1 to 4 and the presence and then absence of a role in the £110k to £120k pay band in successive annual reports were linked. They clearly aren't.

As above, the apparent reduction is because of a one-off increase the year before due to a redundancy payment. Then, of course, some of the 5 roles reported on as senior pay may not also be in the over £60k bracket that has to be itemised separately. If 3 roles were just below that reporting threshold one year and just above the year after, you could easily go from 1 to 4 roles needing to be itemised in a table with only a small change in total pay bill.

I'd like to delete the offending post but that would only further confuse things. So instead, it remains as an embarrassing monument to my ability to get it completely wrong.

So the only remaining question is why there is a line in a table in last year's annual report relating to 2018 that is then missing in the corresponding table in this year's annual report. My money is now very firmly on clerical error rather than conspiracy!

Sorry again folks. Let's un-drift back to the more interesting topic of the proposed membership changes.
Oldjohnw
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Re: Membership rates

Post by Oldjohnw »

What a very decent and gracious post, backnotes.
John
Astrobike
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Re: Membership rates

Post by Astrobike »

Why would you pay £48.00 for CUK membership
When you can get Clarion membership for £15.00 and yes it includes insurances
and yes it is for 12 months.
I know it's not a touring club but neither is CUK.
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