Diesel - seriously thinking of giving up cycling

Vorpal
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Re: Diesel - seriously thinking of giving up cycling

Postby Vorpal » 11 Jan 2017, 10:04am

Every source of power has detrimental aspects. In the case of hydropower, when dams are used, the resulting holding lakes and resevoirs emit greenhouse gases, including methane, which is worse for the atmosphere than CO2. This information is very negative; I have also seen some that show the emissions from resevoirs and holding lakes decrease with time... http://www.climatecentral.org/news/gree ... ange-20745

For solar power, the problem is the production of the solar panels, some of which require rare earth elements, and the processing requires caustic chemicals. Many are produced in countries where regulation and/or enforcement of toxic waste are lax.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news ... y-ranking/

So, we need to consider the whole picture when establishing sustainable power sources, and we need significant efforts to reduce the consumption of natural resources.

Whilst getting more people to switch to electric helps a little, and it helps alot at street level, getting people to drive less overall is still necessary. If draconian measures are okay for getting rid of diesels, then they are okay for reducing driving.
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al_yrpal
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Re: Diesel - seriously thinking of giving up cycling

Postby al_yrpal » 11 Jan 2017, 10:20am

At last… someone trying to see the whole picture. Wish the idiots at FOTE and similar were capable of such thinking. You do need a broad accurate knowledge of science and a critical mind to do so but most people who support nutcase organisations don't have a clue and fail to recognise that generating and distributing energy with the least harm is having an ability to distinguish what is the least 'practical' evil.

Al
Touring on a bicycle is a great way to explore and appreciate the countryside and towns you pass through. CTC gone but not forgotten!

hamster
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Re: Diesel - seriously thinking of giving up cycling

Postby hamster » 11 Jan 2017, 4:11pm

Quite.
I don't totally agree with you but a similar example is how the Greens in Germany have killed off the nuclear industry (which emits almost no CO2 and had years of life left in its reactors) and are instead burning lots of brown coal. It seems as though they forgot the acid rain of the 1980s as well as the extra CO2. Bonkers.

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Re: Diesel - seriously thinking of giving up cycling

Postby Mark R » 11 Jan 2017, 5:49pm

Vorpal wrote:
...Whilst getting more people to switch to electric helps a little, and it helps a lot at street level, getting people to drive less overall is still necessary. If draconian measures are okay for getting rid of diesels, then they are okay for reducing driving.



Who has argued against getting people to drive less? Not me that's for sure, I'd definitely vote for those draconian measures but in a democracy.....anyway, reducing the amount of driving wouldn't necessarily get roadside air pollution under control if there remained a high proportion of dirty diesels....

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Mick F
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Re: Diesel - seriously thinking of giving up cycling

Postby Mick F » 11 Jan 2017, 9:49pm

Mark R wrote: ............ reducing the amount of driving wouldn't necessarily get roadside air pollution under control if there remained a high proportion of dirty diesels....
+1
Mick F. Cornwall

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Re: Diesel - seriously thinking of giving up cycling

Postby al_yrpal » 12 Jan 2017, 9:03am

Tidal lagoon: £1.3bn Swansea Bay project to be backed - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-38571240

Yes! :D :D :D

Al
Touring on a bicycle is a great way to explore and appreciate the countryside and towns you pass through. CTC gone but not forgotten!

reohn2
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Re: Diesel - seriously thinking of giving up cycling

Postby reohn2 » 12 Jan 2017, 9:17am

al_yrpal wrote:Tidal lagoon: £1.3bn Swansea Bay project to be backed - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-38571240

Yes! :D :D :D

Al

Agreed :D
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Re: Diesel - seriously thinking of giving up cycling

Postby Bonefishblues » 12 Jan 2017, 9:24am

OTOH if that only costs 1.3bn, I shall eat my trousers :lol:

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Re: Diesel - seriously thinking of giving up cycling

Postby reohn2 » 12 Jan 2017, 9:30am

Bonefishblues wrote:OTOH if that only costs 1.3bn, I shall eat my trousers :lol:


Oh! there's no doubt at all it will at least double in cost,but it's worth it IMO.
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Re: Diesel - seriously thinking of giving up cycling

Postby Bonefishblues » 12 Jan 2017, 9:38am

reohn2 wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:OTOH if that only costs 1.3bn, I shall eat my trousers :lol:


Oh! there's no doubt at all it will at least double in cost,but it's worth it IMO.

It's a helluva proof of concept, isn't it - build the biggest one we can as the first one!

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Re: Diesel - seriously thinking of giving up cycling

Postby Psamathe » 12 Jan 2017, 10:00am

Vorpal wrote:Every source of power has detrimental aspects. In the case of hydropower, when dams are used, the resulting holding lakes and resevoirs emit greenhouse gases, including methane, which is worse for the atmosphere than CO2. This information is very negative; I have also seen some that show the emissions from resevoirs and holding lakes decrease with time... http://www.climatecentral.org/news/gree ... e-20745....

Have there been comparative studies investigating methane released from e.g. tropical rain forests. As I understood it, this is biological origin methane coming from decomposition of biological material and biological material rots all over the place (under varying conditions). As a report is seems rather short of references (those given are just to other similar articles from the same organisation) and they do comment that a significant contribution of this methane generation is actually caused (indirectly) by fertiliser run-off making it more an issue of farming practices than electricity generation.

So I can appreciate they may be some negative impacts to hydro generation but also, I was not overly impressed or convinced by the article.

Ian

reohn2
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Re: Diesel - seriously thinking of giving up cycling

Postby reohn2 » 12 Jan 2017, 10:06am

Bonefishblues wrote:
reohn2 wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:OTOH if that only costs 1.3bn, I shall eat my trousers :lol:


Oh! there's no doubt at all it will at least double in cost,but it's worth it IMO.

It's a helluva proof of concept, isn't it - build the biggest one we can as the first one!

As a layman in all of this I read that the two parts to the project,breakwaters and hydro turbines are well proven.As you say the scale is BIG but they must feel confident about the ability to build it as it's not really a leap into the unknown as far as civil engineering goes.
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Bonefishblues
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Re: Diesel - seriously thinking of giving up cycling

Postby Bonefishblues » 12 Jan 2017, 10:16am

Show me a Civil Engineer who would turn down a crack at building something Really Big :lol:

reohn2
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Re: Diesel - seriously thinking of giving up cycling

Postby reohn2 » 12 Jan 2017, 10:21am

Vorpal wrote:Every source of power has detrimental aspects. In the case of hydropower, when dams are used, the resulting holding lakes and resevoirs emit greenhouse gases, including methane, which is worse for the atmosphere than CO2. This information is very negative; I have also seen some that show the emissions from resevoirs and holding lakes decrease with time... http://www.climatecentral.org/news/gree ... ange-20745

For solar power, the problem is the production of the solar panels, some of which require rare earth elements, and the processing requires caustic chemicals. Many are produced in countries where regulation and/or enforcement of toxic waste are lax.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news ... y-ranking/

So, we need to consider the whole picture when establishing sustainable power sources, and we need significant efforts to reduce the consumption of natural resources.

Whilst getting more people to switch to electric helps a little, and it helps alot at street level, getting people to drive less overall is still necessary. If draconian measures are okay for getting rid of diesels, then they are okay for reducing driving.


No matter what the human race does to produce anything it will have a negative impact on the earth we live on,even relatively benign bicycle has some negative effect on the planet.
It's all about minimising that effect for the best results.
The problem we face is monetary profit and a capitalist system that only has that as it's goal,investors on the only care for the best monetary return.
That's the major problem as I see it.
PS,why do I think I'm preaching to the converted? :wink:
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reohn2
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Re: Diesel - seriously thinking of giving up cycling

Postby reohn2 » 12 Jan 2017, 10:21am

Bonefishblues wrote:Show me a Civil Engineer who would turn down a crack at building something Really Big :lol:


What's your point?
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