Diesel - seriously thinking of giving up cycling

[meic]

The other option being offered is regarding the state of the atmosphere as collateral damage in the fight to protect respiratory health.

Sounds like absolute nonsense to me. Going over to diesel didn't make any difference to global warming, moving away from it won't make any meaningful difference either. It will just stop so many people getting sick and improve the health of the nation generally.

In fact, you could make a pretty strong argument that getting rid of the filthiest vehicles ASAP will make active travel a much more attractive option - something which actually would make a worthwhile difference.

Other people call it chemistry. Diesels use 20-25% less fuel and emit 15% less CO2 per km.

You have been trying very strongly to make that argument and you havent even managed to convince other cyclists. I did another 55 miles on the bike today and didnt notice any difference at all between the diesel and petrol cars that passed me. I did however get a very strong whiff from one driver's perfume!

[Vorpal]

I can see Mark R's point, as much as I've disagreed with him. Lots of people drive diesels in Norway, and there are air quality issues as a result.

However, I still don't think that the solution is to shift people to petrol. We need to get people driving less, and more of that driving done with human powered, electric, and elcetric assist vehicles.

[Mark R]

I did another 55 miles on the bike today and didn't notice any difference at all between the diesel and petrol cars that passed me.

Then I can only assume you that you don't recognise the characteristic diesel stench for what it is, which would go some way to explaining your belligerence on this issue!

Other people call it chemistry. Diesels use 20-25% less fuel and emit 15% less CO2 per km.

That's exactly the dubious rationale that has got us into this toxic mess (aka the dash for diesel). Has going diesel actually helped with global warming in the grand scheme (or has it just enabled the average size of vehicles to keep increasing and made driving cheaper thus cancelling out any actual benefit)? Has going diesel made roadside air far more unpleasant and unhealthy than necessary?

[Mick F]

I did another 55 miles on the bike today and didnt notice any difference at all between the diesel and petrol cars that passed me.

This, I don't understand at all.

Round here, the stench is awful from diesel cars and many vans.
Petrol vehicles can smell of course, but the smelly ones are few and far between.

If you sat me by the side of the road wearing ear defenders and a blindfold, I could still tell a diesel car as it passed very easily indeed by the stench.

[meic]

I did another 55 miles on the bike today and didn't notice any difference at all between the diesel and petrol cars that passed me.

Then I can only assume you that you don't recognise the characteristic diesel stench for what it is, which would go some way to explaining your belligerence on this issue!

Other people call it chemistry. Diesels use 20-25% less fuel and emit 15% less CO2 per km.

That's exactly the dubious rationale that has got us into this toxic mess (aka the dash for diesel). Has going diesel actually helped with global warming in the grand scheme (or has it just enabled the average size of vehicles to keep increasing and made driving cheaper thus cancelling out any actual benefit)? Has going diesel made roadside air far more unpleasant and unhealthy than necessary?

That had me laughing!
Diesel has helped cut emissions for the vehicles of people who just want something that does the job as cheaply as possible. The people who just aim to buy the biggest gas guzzler they can afford need dealing with an different way, which is increasing the price of fuel or ownership of larger vehicles.
Prestige vehicles are still very fond of petrol engines.

[Mark R]

I wonder how far you would go with this argument that slightly lower CO2 emissions justifies a shedload of extra roadside pollution.


For example if you remove the particulate filter from a modern car you can expect circa 10% lower fuel consumption and consequently lower CO2 emissions. Are people who do this to be congratulated? If not why not?

[meic]

Are people who do this to be congratulated? If not why not?

No, because it doesnt work.
If you argue too well that it does, I will be getting out the steel spike.

[Cyril Haearn]

I did another 55 miles on the bike today and didnt notice any difference at all between the diesel and petrol cars that passed me.

This, I don't understand at all.

Round here, the stench is awful from diesel cars and many vans.
Petrol vehicles can smell of course, but the smelly ones are few and far between.

If you sat me by the side of the road wearing ear defenders and a blindfold, I could still tell a diesel car as it passed very easily indeed by the stench.

Some people including me (nearly all male ) are "colour blind", I love colours but I can not distinguish as many as people with normal colour vision. One imagines that you are blest with a particularly acute sense of smell

[Mick F]

It's to do with the terrain, as I've been saying all through this thread.
Pootling along on a flattish road, I couldn't tell one car from another.

Try it round here.
Stand on the side of the road on any one of our hills, and see and smell the diesel muck.

[Psamathe]

I wonder how much worse the polluting effects are because (certainly in rural areas around me) people seem to need a significant 4x4/SUV/people carrier just to carry one (or two) people to the supermarket. Change that down to e.g. an economical hatch back (which still gets them there just as quickly, carried all the shopping home easily, etc.) and you've immediately reduced the amounts on noxious fumes (as well as immediately make more space/better overtaking space for cyclists).

There will always be a few people who need such vehicles, but these days they are far more common than necessary, often being some sort of macho status symbol for the lone (male) driver.

(And I have been following this thread and apologise as I expect (but can't remember) that this point must have already been raised after 40+ pages)

Ian

[ian s]

I suggest that that all vehicles, regardless of fuel type used, should be set so as to minimise the amount of fuel used, with no emissions control rubbish that increases fuel consumption

[Mark R]

Right on! Let the plebs choke - their own stupid fault if they cant afford to drive

[Psamathe]

Radio podcast/iPlayer program might be interesting (I've not listened to it yet but guessing from the title and description)

Delivering Clean Air
Discovery

Internet shopping continues to rise worldwide. That means a lot more delivery vans on the streets of our towns and cities. Those vans and trucks, often powered by dirty diesel engines, are contributing to air pollution problems that can cause significant increases in premature death and great discomfort for people suffering from heart and lung conditions.

As part of the BBC’s ‘So I Can Breathe’ season Tom Heap sets out to find innovative solutions. Could drones or robots be the answer? Could we cut out the middle man and use 3D printers to create everything we want at home? Perhaps it’s simply a matter of converting all those vans to electric or gas power or even carrying out the majority of home deliveries by bike.

With the promise of ever-quicker delivery times the search for a solution becomes ever more urgent if we’re to prevent our consumer addiction becoming an air pollution crisis on every doorstep.

iPlayer Link http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p04v48c2
mp3 download page link http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p002w557/episodes/downloads

Ian

[661-Pete]

Internet shopping continues to rise worldwide. That means a lot more delivery vans on the streets of our towns and cities.

Whatever happened to the good old electric milk float? Hardly ever seen these days. Or we could go even more retro and bring back the horse-and-cart. I believe Young's, the London based brewery, still make some of their deliveries by horse-power, but that's probably more for the tourists.....

[661-Pete]

Regarding supermarket deliveries - it might be more environment-friendly to have one van - even if diesel-driven - doing the rounds, than to have many customers flocking to the supermarket car park in their own vehicles, which are as likely as not to be diesel anyway.

We don't choose this option seeing as we cycle to the supermarket on nearly every occasion. But for those for whom this is not a viable option, I suppose home delilvery makes sense.

What makes no sense at all, to me, is this 'click-and-collect' which our local Tesco operates - and presumably most of the other supermarkets. Also increasingly popular in France, where it goes under the label "Carrefour Drive" or "Leclerc Drive" or whatever: they've sprung up all over the place. This is where you place your order online but then drive to the supermarket to collect it. I suppose for impatient customers, it saves the time spent cruising the aisles and queueing at the checkout. But in terms of environmental cost......