Lance Dopestrong wrote: ... The Hospitals harp on about how the money is essential and raises X million a year for the Hospital coffers. This is unlawful. The charges are only supposed to cover the costs incurred by enforcement activity. It is explicitly against the regulations to use it as a profit making exercise, but apart from a few occasional rumbling reminders from the Communities and Local Government department, and the DoT, it goes almost entirely unremarked upon, never mind enforced. ... (My emphasis)
Can you link to those regulations, please? I appreciate that there's been a lot of controversy over parking on private land (even when, in a case like this, it's in public ownership) ever since clamping was outlawed and, more recently, when the courts decided that offering to pay a private enforcement company only a token amount to cover their actual costs was insufficient.
Lance Dopestrong wrote: ... The Hospitals harp on about how the money is essential and raises X million a year for the Hospital coffers. This is unlawful. The charges are only supposed to cover the costs incurred by enforcement activity. It is explicitly against the regulations to use it as a profit making exercise, but apart from a few occasional rumbling reminders from the Communities and Local Government department, and the DoT, it goes almost entirely unremarked upon, never mind enforced. ... (My emphasis)
Can you link to those regulations, please?
I'd be interested to see that as well, the guidance I've seen makes no mention of it, only that
Charges should be reasonable for the area.
and that NHS Trusts should publish
financial information relating to their car parking
kwackers wrote:Nearly 10 years between the prior two posts! Is this a record?
Not as far as Cyril Haearn is concerned. And what does "thoyling" really mean?
When the pestilence strikes from the East, go far and breathe the cold air deeply. Ignore the sage, stay not indoors. Ho Ri Zon 12th Century Chinese philosopher
Lance Dopestrong wrote: ... The Hospitals harp on about how the money is essential and raises X million a year for the Hospital coffers. This is unlawful. The charges are only supposed to cover the costs incurred by enforcement activity. It is explicitly against the regulations to use it as a profit making exercise, but apart from a few occasional rumbling reminders from the Communities and Local Government department, and the DoT, it goes almost entirely unremarked upon, never mind enforced. ... (My emphasis)
Can you link to those regulations, please? I appreciate that there's been a lot of controversy over parking on private land (even when, in a case like this, it's in public ownership) ever since clamping was outlawed and, more recently, when the courts decided that offering to pay a private enforcement company only a token amount to cover their actual costs was insufficient.
The Traffic Management Act regulates parking enforcement on public property. Its a bitnof a dry read I'm afraid.
MIAS L5.1 instructor - advanded road and off road skills, FAST aid and casualty care, defensive tactics, SAR skills, nav, group riding, maintenance, ride and group leader qual'd. Cytec 2 - exponent of hammer applied brute force.
Lance Dopestrong wrote:... Its a bitnof a dry read I'm afraid.
That's exactly why I was hoping for a link to the specific bit(s).
I think there's some misunderstanding, I think it's the penalty charges that are regulated and have to be justified against the cost of enforcement, rather than the parking charges themselves.
Just out of curiosity how much would the nhs staff pay for parking in a normal, pay and display carpark? Is it more of less than £220? Unless my maths is wrong that's less than a pound per day or less than 12 pence an hour if you work 8 hours, 5 days a week and 48 weeks a year.
It seems a good deal for storing your environment polluting car while working. It's a lot more than that per day or hour of you're a patient or visiting a patient. They're not earning while a patient or visiting. Personally if you don't charge employees you shouldn't charge patients / visitors neither. Of course there's no patient unions with the same clout as nhs employee unions so I guess that doesn't help.
Tangled Metal wrote:Just out of curiosity how much would the nhs staff pay for parking in a normal, pay and display carpark? Is it more of less than £220? Unless my maths is wrong that's less than a pound per day or less than 12 pence an hour if you work 8 hours, 5 days a week and 48 weeks a year.
It seems a good deal for storing your environment polluting car while working. It's a lot more than that per day or hour of you're a patient or visiting a patient. They're not earning while a patient or visiting. Personally if you don't charge employees you shouldn't charge patients / visitors neither. Of course there's no patient unions with the same clout as nhs employee unions so I guess that doesn't help.
At the Princess of Wales Hospital in Bridgend, where I was visiting earlier this evening, parking is free. For staff and visitors. Problem solved.
Tangled Metal wrote:Just out of curiosity how much would the nhs staff pay for parking in a normal, pay and display carpark? Is it more of less than £220? Unless my maths is wrong that's less than a pound per day or less than 12 pence an hour if you work 8 hours, 5 days a week and 48 weeks a year.
It seems a good deal for storing your environment polluting car while working. It's a lot more than that per day or hour of you're a patient or visiting a patient. They're not earning while a patient or visiting. Personally if you don't charge employees you shouldn't charge patients / visitors neither. Of course there's no patient unions with the same clout as nhs employee unions so I guess that doesn't help.
At the Princess of Wales Hospital in Bridgend, where I was visiting earlier this evening, parking is free. For staff and visitors. Problem solved.
Nothing is free of course, someone is paying for it and also the money it would have raised is coming from elsewhere. The devolved Welsh Assembly is funded by the UK Government in accordance with an agreed formula, it's then free to spend it as it chooses. I don't know how the Welsh NHS Trusts operate, though the news this winter is the appalling waiting times in A&E so free parking wouldn't have been high on my list of priorities.
Tangled Metal wrote:Just out of curiosity how much would the nhs staff pay for parking in a normal, pay and display carpark? Is it more of less than £220? Unless my maths is wrong that's less than a pound per day or less than 12 pence an hour if you work 8 hours, 5 days a week and 48 weeks a year.
It seems a good deal for storing your environment polluting car while working. It's a lot more than that per day or hour of you're a patient or visiting a patient. They're not earning while a patient or visiting. Personally if you don't charge employees you shouldn't charge patients / visitors neither. Of course there's no patient unions with the same clout as nhs employee unions so I guess that doesn't help.
At the Princess of Wales Hospital in Bridgend, where I was visiting earlier this evening, parking is free. For staff and visitors. Problem solved.
Nothing is free of course, someone is paying for it and also the money it would have raised is coming from elsewhere. The devolved Welsh Assembly is funded by the UK Government in accordance with an agreed formula, it's then free to spend it as it chooses. I don't know how the Welsh NHS Trusts operate, though the news this winter is the appalling waiting times in A&E so free parking wouldn't have been high on my list of priorities.
We have parked in the car park of the Princess of Wales Hospital about twenty times over the past week, visiting my Dad who is okay now but needed life saving care a few days back. Do you think people in our position should be paying to park? The Welsh public don't think that, which is why parking fees are being phased out at Welsh Hospitals.
pwa wrote:We have parked in the car park of the Princess of Wales Hospital about twenty times over the past week, visiting my Dad who is okay now but needed life saving care a few days back. Do you think people in our position should be paying to park?
Absolutely - just as you would be expected to pay the bus fare had you chosen a more sustainable form of transport.
It never ceases to amaze me that you are just as likely to encounter motorists special pleading on a cycle forum as you are in the pages of the D****y M**l.
The Welsh public don't think that, which is why parking fees are being phased out at Welsh Hospitals.
Maybe the Welsh public does believe that spending NHS cash on subsidising motorists is a higher priority than say medical professionals or equipment.
Maybe if the NHS was funded properly it wouldn't need to keep finding ways to scrape in a bit of cash from car park fees to keep afloat. To demand people to pay to park at their place of work is diabolical,to ask people to pay a nominal fee for the upkeep of carparks at hospitals is reasonable IMO but some NHS trusts are asking too much and heir parking fees are structured to rake in more than they should by over charging due to minimum charge rates. FWIW,Mrs R2 has regular appointments at Salford Royal where we've never paid more than £2 per visit,appointment waiting times are minimal and treatment is prompt,so we're not there long(it would cost the same if we were visiting for upto two hours),which we don't mind paying but we've been to other NHS hospitals that charge more for the same time. We live 20 miles away from Salford Royal,not on a convenient train or bus route and the car is the only real alternative unless we wish to spend three to four hours travelling time for a 1/2 hour appointment.
EDITED for typos and clarity
Last edited by reohn2 on 21 Jan 2018, 10:08am, edited 1 time in total.
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
pwa wrote: At the Princess of Wales Hospital in Bridgend, where I was visiting earlier this evening, parking is free. For staff and visitors. Problem solved.
Nothing is free of course, someone is paying for it and also the money it would have raised is coming from elsewhere. The devolved Welsh Assembly is funded by the UK Government in accordance with an agreed formula, it's then free to spend it as it chooses. I don't know how the Welsh NHS Trusts operate, though the news this winter is the appalling waiting times in A&E so free parking wouldn't have been high on my list of priorities.
We have parked in the car park of the Princess of Wales Hospital about twenty times over the past week, visiting my Dad who is okay now but needed life saving care a few days back. Do you think people in our position should be paying to park? The Welsh public don't think that, which is why parking fees are being phased out at Welsh Hospitals.
Well you could start with the principals laid out in the guidelines I linked to above
Concessions, including free or reduced charges or caps, should be available for the following groups:
disabled people2 frequent outpatient attenders visitors with relatives who are gravely ill, or carers of such people visitors to relatives who have an extended stay in hospital, or carers of such people carers of people in the above groups where appropriate staff working shifts that mean public transport cannot be used
I think that's the right balance, rather than providing free facilities for all.
