Quality Infra

Vorpal
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Re: Quality Infra

Postby Vorpal » 20 Apr 2018, 1:31pm

wjmh wrote:Hi.

Just joined the forum, so apologies for my naivety. My grip is so many of the so called "cycle lanes". I cycle 20 miles to work. I would estimate there are cycle lanes for about a third of my journey, but I use very few of them. I guess my gripes are familiar to many:
- Some of the cycle lanes are shared with pedestrians (schoolchildren).
- Cars are parked on the cycle lane.
- The cycle lanes are interrupted by side roads (where it is expected that the cycle will give way).
- Rejoining the road when the cycle lane runs out is always difficult and dangerous because no car will give way.

Can somebody tell me if the goverment/cycle uk/ anybody has an agreed standard which removes or at least reduces these problems.

Southampton Council - and I'm sure many more - is very keen to proclaim the amount of dedicated cycle lanes they have. But how many are fit for purpose? Only cycle lanes which meet an agreed standard should be included in any statistics.

Technically, 'cycle lanes' are those on the main carriageway, separated from other lanes only by paint. I think that you mean 'cycle paths' and 'shared use facilities', but your criticism of them is entirely correct. There are standards within the Design Manual for Roads and Bridges (DMRB) in guidance issued by DfT. However, they have only recently improved to an acceptable leve, traditionally been poorly applied, and furthermore, there is no accountability, so when they relax the guidelines, the only things in the way, typically are volunteer campaigners, and, if we are lucky (doesn't always happen), safety auditors.
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pjclinch
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Re: Quality Infra

Postby pjclinch » 20 Apr 2018, 3:17pm

wjmh wrote:Can somebody tell me if the goverment/cycle uk/ anybody has an agreed standard which removes or at least reduces these problems.


As Vorpal noted, "up to a point" is the direct answer. Less directly, the government are currently consulting on this so please let them know what needs to be done. CUK have a response and links etc. at https://action.cyclinguk.org/page/23078/action/1?ea.tracking.id=DE&ea.url.id=1339072

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mjr
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Re: Quality Infra

Postby mjr » 20 Apr 2018, 3:33pm

wjmh wrote: - Some of the cycle lanes are shared with pedestrians (schoolchildren).
- Cars are parked on the cycle lane.
- The cycle lanes are interrupted by side roads (where it is expected that the cycle will give way).
- Rejoining the road when the cycle lane runs out is always difficult and dangerous because no car will give way.

Can somebody tell me if the goverment/cycle uk/ anybody has an agreed standard which removes or at least reduces these problems.

Standards yes. Agreed no. I'd suggest the Design Manual for Roads and Bridges section addresses your concerns as follows:
- separate cycle lanes and footways where volumes of either require it (table 2.2.2);
- cycle tracks and solid-line cycle lanes, making it illegal to drive or park a car in it (but this is also a parking enforcement problem);
- cycle lanes continue over junctions (table 2.4.2);
- cycle lanes merge in with neither having priority (figure 2.3.9).

However, that standard only applies to the Strategic Road Network, so councils can keep screwing things up with little fear of rebuke at present. You could also look at the London Cycle Design Standards, the Sustrans Design Handbook, Making Space for Cycling, the Manuals for Streets and many others, yet still you'll find councils building botched layouts which meet no standard.

Southampton Council - and I'm sure many more - is very keen to proclaim the amount of dedicated cycle lanes they have. But how many are fit for purpose? Only cycle lanes which meet an agreed standard should be included in any statistics.

I agree, but which standard? There are so many to choose from at the moment. :-(
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ianrobo
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Re: Quality Infra

Postby ianrobo » 9 May 2018, 8:22am

Vorpal wrote:I've ridden in both Ghent and Brugge, and used to visit regularly for work. It does tend to be somewhat better in Brugge than Ghent, but not hugely so, except in the centre. The centre of Brugge is a really nice place to ride a bike. Most of that is not due to segregated infrastructure, but because the medieval streets in the centre allow very limited motor traffic; residents and deliveries only in most places. The cobbles can be awkward, but it is otherwise almost ideal cycling conditions.

Segregated paths like in the video are plenty wide for rural areas. The junction designs are still poor, though. I've had a near miss (right hook) and I know someone who has been right hooked there. Also, like in NL, cyclists are required to use cycling facilities when provided, and some are pretty bad; no better than the UK. Newer residential areas do generally have good quality infrastructure, but they haven't invested as much as in the Netherlands, so there are still significant gaps to fill in Belgium. Overall, I do think it's better than in the UK, but I could do without being forced to use crap infrastructure just because it's there.


Nothing can compare to NL for infra and this was not the point of my post, it is to compare to the UK and what is possible. Yes the surface was perfectly pan flat but was doing 30kph so a casual rider has no issues surely ? As for safety, there were a few pedestrians and obviously at that point I slowed down to pass with care.

Oh the light was on because the camera is a Fly12 ....

What I want in the UK is the same standard or better than this, and it is possible ...