Trespass - to become a criminal offence?

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Trespass - to become a criminal offence?

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 1 Dec 2019, 6:58pm

Hi,
No they are still Micks logs, he just has to ask for them and the owner has to cough?

I see problems ahead, and if you are mates with local PCSO they will surely turn up to try and eject you off the land only to find you have moved on.
Unless there is damage then the local bobby should ignore any report of trespass, but depends whether the bobby is bored that day or not.

I would never intentionally camp anywhere that I know will cause a problem, in my camper or tent, and never have, short of Exmoor jobsworth wardens :P
Farmers do wake early but I am not sure they will be bothered even if they see a tent, and then they would have to be nasty.

I see more the gentry with their shooting stock to protect getting shirty.
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vegan dog
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Re: Trespass - to become a criminal offence?

Postby vegan dog » 1 Dec 2019, 7:06pm

Paulatic wrote:The problem of this kind of legislation is that it enables and lends support to the 'Get offa my land' wanna be squire. He’s going to cherish giving you grief, not everyone is easy going, and would certainly love to spoil your day with a bit of confrontation.


Well said. I have lost count of the amount of times I have got into confrontations with these Get offa my land types, often nearing the point of violence. Most of the times I am on a footpath with my dog and because I refuse to put the dog on the lead they have a hysterical fit. If they don't get their way they stamp their feet like little children. Even had one tell me that if I don't put my dog on the lead he would shoot the dog and shoot me as well! (I just ignored him anyway) I think you have to be severely mentally unstable to say such things, especially threatening murder. It makes me even more mad that we are bankrolling these types through the common agricultural policy. Nobody gives me subsidies for my business. One plus of this brexit thing is I hope they drastically reform the subsidy system. It's nothing more than a racket.
Last edited by vegan dog on 1 Dec 2019, 7:13pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Mick F
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Re: Trespass - to become a criminal offence?

Postby Mick F » 1 Dec 2019, 7:08pm

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Farmers do wake early but I am not sure they will be bothered even if they see a tent, and then they would have to be nasty.
Our local farmer is a difficult person.
We know him well, and his wife, and they own the fields around us. He's a very difficult person to deal with and very parochial and territorial. It's HIS land ..................... and doesn't everyone know it! :lol:

We offered to buy a couple of yards strip of it so we could straighten out the fencing and make it modern and stock-proof. He refused point blank, saying that his father put that fence in and that's where it stays ............ despite some of it wrapped round trees and crappy wobbly and iffy posts.

Pitch a tent there, and he'd take a shot gun to greet you.
Mick F. Cornwall

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Paulatic
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Re: Trespass - to become a criminal offence?

Postby Paulatic » 1 Dec 2019, 7:14pm

Mick F wrote:[ It's a rather dangerous situation when a tree of circa 2ft or more in diameter is leaning at 45deg. Keep away! :shock:


Known as " man killers" up here :)
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Mick F
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Re: Trespass - to become a criminal offence?

Postby Mick F » 1 Dec 2019, 7:29pm

Yes.
Killers.

Not the first birch to have fallen .......... or been felled by me here.

Birch live for maybe 70years, and then they die. Could be much less. They suffer from a fungus I understand. Don't care what it is, they all get cut up and split for the fire.

We have a little copse of them down the drive on the right near the gate. One of them is about 9" diameter and dying - I can see it swelling and leaning. It will be falling in a few months - I know it. Probably is about 30years old max, but at least it's not going to pose an issue being that small and where it is.

It will still make good firewood though. :D
Mick F. Cornwall

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Paulatic
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Re: Trespass - to become a criminal offence?

Postby Paulatic » 1 Dec 2019, 7:32pm

vegan dog wrote:[
It makes me even more mad that we are bankrolling these types through the common agricultural policy. Nobody gives me subsidies for my business. One plus of this brexit thing is I hope they drastically reform the subsidy system. It's nothing more than a racket.

They are subsidising the cost of your food and enabling a reliable supply of it. If you think the current situation is a racket were you around before we joined the CAP? The EU have, over the years, closed the easy scams and increased policing of the system and demanded standards.
Just be aware any reform might not be best for your health or wallet.
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vegan dog
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Re: Trespass - to become a criminal offence?

Postby vegan dog » 1 Dec 2019, 7:46pm

Paulatic wrote:They are subsidising the cost of your food and enabling a reliable supply of it.


I am a vegan who grows the majority of my own organic food. Anything I don't grow, I source locally from other small growers (apart from when I am travelling!). I don't follow your love of the CAP. It has helped to expand intensive farming practices,including in places like Eastern Europe. Many of the large landowners have done very well out of CAP.

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Paulatic
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Re: Trespass - to become a criminal offence?

Postby Paulatic » 1 Dec 2019, 8:18pm

vegan dog wrote:
Paulatic wrote:They are subsidising the cost of your food and enabling a reliable supply of it.


I am a vegan who grows the majority of my own organic food. Anything I don't grow, I source locally from other small growers (apart from when I am travelling!). I don't follow your love of the CAP. It has helped to expand intensive farming practices,including in places like Eastern Europe. Many of the large landowners have done very well out of CAP.

You’re doing very well and I’ll tip my hat to you but there are millions not like yourself who need feeding. Large landowners with a grain of sense have indeed done well out of CAP. Before CAP even small acreage farmers rode around in large cars and many UK Gov schemes were like an invite to print your own money. I hope they’ve learnt from that.
Out of interest would you care to divulge the area you live in? I’ve a large garden and a poly tunnel and I’m streets behind your capability.
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vegan dog
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Re: Trespass - to become a criminal offence?

Postby vegan dog » 1 Dec 2019, 8:48pm

Paulatic wrote:
I’ve a large garden and a poly tunnel and I’m streets behind your capability.


What have you been growing? This year has been pretty good - It's crazy that I even have some raspberries left that I was picking today! I have also been processing pumpkins today - I take all of the seeds and dry / roast them. I also grind them into a power which I put in drinks and put into bread. They are a very good protein source. Plus I had over 400 beetroot! The only thing I don't do very well with is carrots. I even started experimenting with making my own yeast for bread, following a Japanese blog that I read. Also don't discount foraging for weeds.

Pete Owens
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Re: Trespass - to become a criminal offence?

Postby Pete Owens » 2 Dec 2019, 12:03pm

This is what happens when governments pick on minorities to scapegoat.
Most of the debate here is concerned with the unintended consequences that we might encounter rather than intended targets of the law.
As a minority group ourselves we should understand this better than most.

First they came for the gypsies....

Tinpotflowers
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Re: Trespass - to become a criminal offence?

Postby Tinpotflowers » 2 Dec 2019, 8:47pm

Please keep up to date
You can be prosecuted under various section for specific place and actions
Trespass on Protected Sites - Sections 128-131 Of The Serious Organised Crime And Police Act 2005

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... e-act-2005
TABLE OF OTHER STATUTORY OFFENCES INVOLVING TRESPASS
https://www.cps.gov.uk/sites/default/fi ... S-2019.pdf

Bonefishblues
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Re: Trespass - to become a criminal offence?

Postby Bonefishblues » 2 Dec 2019, 9:16pm

Tinpotflowers wrote:Please keep up to date
You can be prosecuted under various section for specific place and actions
Trespass on Protected Sites - Sections 128-131 Of The Serious Organised Crime And Police Act 2005

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... e-act-2005
TABLE OF OTHER STATUTORY OFFENCES INVOLVING TRESPASS
https://www.cps.gov.uk/sites/default/fi ... S-2019.pdf

Not sure the point you're making? Imagine the powers in those limited instances were extended universally. That's what's concerning posters.

drossall
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Re: Trespass - to become a criminal offence?

Postby drossall » 2 Dec 2019, 9:29pm

Isn't it the case that cycling on a public footpath is a trespass against the landowner? I'm not recommending it, because I think rights of way should be respected, but a criminal offence would be a bit extreme.

pete75
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Re: Trespass - to become a criminal offence?

Postby pete75 » 2 Dec 2019, 10:24pm

The utility cyclist wrote:
NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,
Yeah that stuffs my wild camping, I can just imagine finding a spot late at night And waking up to a gun Shoved in your face :evil:

That would be a criminal offence in its own right and lose the gun owner their license, you can't simply start threatening with a gun simply because someone is on your land and presenting no threat of harm.
So I wouldn't lay awake at night imagining this extremely improbable scenario, I'd carry on wild camping and obviously being careful as always as to where.

The Duke of Omnium's gamekeeper, on his Grace's orders, shoves a gun in your face and orders you off the Ducal estate. He will not be prosecuted and will not lose his gun licence. If you complained after trespass has been made a criminal offence you would be arrested and charged with that offence. That's the way law enforcement works in rural areas.

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The utility cyclist
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Re: Trespass - to become a criminal offence?

Postby The utility cyclist » 2 Dec 2019, 11:07pm

pete75 wrote:
The utility cyclist wrote:
NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,
Yeah that stuffs my wild camping, I can just imagine finding a spot late at night And waking up to a gun Shoved in your face :evil:

That would be a criminal offence in its own right and lose the gun owner their license, you can't simply start threatening with a gun simply because someone is on your land and presenting no threat of harm.
So I wouldn't lay awake at night imagining this extremely improbable scenario, I'd carry on wild camping and obviously being careful as always as to where.

The Duke of Omnium's gamekeeper, on his Grace's orders, shoves a gun in your face and orders you off the Ducal estate. He will not be prosecuted and will not lose his gun licence. If you complained after trespass has been made a criminal offence you would be arrested and charged with that offence. That's the way law enforcement works in rural areas.

meanwhile in the real world ...some examples of that would be good because what you're saying is simply not going to happen in the situation I described. the law does not allow someone to point a gun at you simply because you're on their land!