Escooter trial to start

kwackers
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Re: Escooter trial to start

Postby kwackers » 22 May 2020, 5:44pm

Xbigman wrote:I'm sorry but thats rubbish.
The minute you alter any type approved component on an ebike its then no longer an ebike. It's actually quite clear cut if you make any attempt at all to understand the process of defining an ebike.
Its also absolutely clear cut that an ebike is legally an unpowered vehicle because of the restrictions placed on it, where as an escooter is legally a powered vehicle and can't be classed as anything else. The rules on them will therefore be different. Just because you can't see a difference doesn't mean there isn't one.

You're also confusing a lack of enforcement with lack of regulation. The authorities are making no attempt to stop shops openly derestricting ebikes, nor are they making any attempt at stopping shops selling escooters. Yes it's a mess, but it's a mess that no one wants to bother cleaning up. That is not a reason for a free for all.



Darren

Not rubbish at all.
You can make your own ebike and it's perfectly legal.
If you add an ebike kit to your bike you can do whatever you want to the bike just as you could when it was still a bike or you could make a bike to whatever form you fancied and stick a kit on that.
I see nothing that prevents any of that.

As for Micks point, if the ebike is of the 'older' variety or an older modified bicycle then the throttle can legitimately work which makes it a mechanically propelled vehicle.
Except of course it doesn't.

As I said plenty of loopholes and exclusions.

Richard D
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Re: Escooter trial to start

Postby Richard D » 23 May 2020, 8:41pm

I am a cynical, cynical man.

But does anyone else find it significant that the Government isn’t proposing a trial legalising E-scooters; it's going to trial a scheme that allows people to HIRE E-scooters.

No doubt there is an organisation behind it with slick branding - and perhaps a corporate sponsorship deal - itching to roll these things out across London and Manchester.

Not Birmingham, though. Our native motorists eat any non-motorised transport users for breakfast.

kwackers
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Re: Escooter trial to start

Postby kwackers » 23 May 2020, 9:34pm

Richard D wrote:I
But does anyone else find it significant that the Government isn’t proposing a trial legalising E-scooters; it's going to trial a scheme that allows people to HIRE E-scooters.

IMO there was a big chance here to show they were serious about reducing car use and they muffed it.
I honestly don't actually care whether we're talking scooters or some other 'small' e-vehicle, I just want to give people realistic alternatives to cars.

However there's a much bigger thing going on here which I've been thinking about.
After all that noise about e-scooters and cycling etc what we actually got was sweet fanny adams.

Which in turn makes me think all that noise about cycling, all the money that was promised, the pop up bike lanes and all the other promises that rolled so easily off their tongues will turn into a few half baked schemes that will also amount to a bugs dick this side of nothing.

In other words whilst cyclists are getting their knickers in a twist arguing technicalities and getting frightened in case someone not on a bicycle gets the same privileges as them, over there where it really matters the man is shafting us all.

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mjr
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Re: Escooter trial to start

Postby mjr » 28 May 2020, 9:35am

Belgium's road safety institute announces that helmets and hi Vis would be a good way to reduce the numbers of E scooter users injuring their chests, hands, jaws and skulls, but acknowledge this can't be done without killing rental schemes. They also push for a ban on pavement use, which is currently permitted there at walking speed, because current scooters don't generally have a speed limiter. Full story in French at https://www.lavenir.net/cnt/dmf20200528 ... selon-vias

In a way, it's rather reassuring to see that Belgium's road safety industry is as rubbish as ours and sometimes comes out with nonsense like suggesting h&h magically protecting jaws and hands.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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Mick F
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Re: Escooter trial to start

Postby Mick F » 29 May 2020, 9:13am

When we've visited Benidorm ............ late November holidays .............. been there a few times.
There are eScooters up and down the prom, and in and out of the town streets.

Last one we saw when we were there last, was here.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@38.53664 ... 312!8i6656
Weaving in and out of the shoppers and tourists.
No-one batted an eye.
Mick F. Cornwall

mercalia
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Re: Escooter trial to start

Postby mercalia » 3 Jun 2020, 12:22pm

since the lockdown I have seen more and more of them on the roads here in Streatham London.

kwackers
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Re: Escooter trial to start

Postby kwackers » 3 Jun 2020, 2:23pm

mercalia wrote:since the lockdown I have seen more and more of them on the roads here in Streatham London.

I've seen a couple near me in the 'burbs. Somewhat amusingly all being used by grey haired blokes obviously commuting.

I was going to go for a ride on the one I've borrowed but it annoyingly had a flat rear tyre so need to fix it first.

mercalia
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Re: Escooter trial to start

Postby mercalia » 10 Jun 2020, 10:28am

trial starts end of june for rental

The Department for Transport wants e-scooters rental schemes - similar to those seen in European cities - tried out across England, Wales and Scotland.

Riders wouldn't need to take out their own insurance to hire an e-scooter, but they would need a driving licence or at least provisional one.

The hired vehicles could be used - legally - within set geographical boundaries.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48106617


At the moment, they are classified as Personal Light Electric Vehicles (PLEVs), so they're treated as motor vehicles and are subject to all the same legal requirements - MOT, tax, licensing and specific construction.

but one thing I didnt realise

Normal scooters, those without motors, are not allowed on pavements or cycle paths - but they can be used on roads.


Can I be fined for using an e-scooter?

If you were to use a hired e-scooter outside of any of the trial areas - yes, you could be fined.

Likewise, if you use a privately-owned e-scooter on any public road, cycle lane or pavement.

You could get a £300 fixed-penalty notice and, if you have one, six points on your driving licence


so will we see a clamp down on them now?
Last edited by mercalia on 10 Jun 2020, 10:45am, edited 2 times in total.

kwackers
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Re: Escooter trial to start

Postby kwackers » 10 Jun 2020, 10:43am

mercalia wrote:Normal scooters, those without motors, are not allowed on pavements or cycle paths - but they can be used on roads.

I think I knew that.

Wonder at what point an e-scooter becomes a normal scooter.

If you just punt it along with a leg?
If it's not turned on?
If the battery is removed?

If only they'd listened to me and simplified the whole light e-vehicle nonsense...

mercalia
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Re: Escooter trial to start

Postby mercalia » 30 Jun 2020, 2:48pm

so RENTAL escooters will be legal to ride on roads from Saturday

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53219331

but not private ones. ....... ( wonder how many ministers have an vested interest)

so will the cops now crack down on private use? They should do. Just Monday afternoon I saw a couple ( mand and woman) at the traffic lights nr the Odeon in Streatham going West towards Mitcham/Croydon leave the road due to a red light and zoom onto the pavement at the same speed they had been on the road - ie FAST

well I have put in a formal complaint why the Met. Cops aint prosecuting any of them. WIll be interesting to see what happens. - £300 fine and 6 points on any driving licence?

fastpedaller
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Re: Escooter trial to start

Postby fastpedaller » 30 Jun 2020, 4:13pm

It's a mystery to me that rental ones are ok to use but not private ones - what's the logic behind that decision?

mercalia
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Re: Escooter trial to start

Postby mercalia » 30 Jun 2020, 5:00pm

fastpedaller wrote:It's a mystery to me that rental ones are ok to use but not private ones - what's the logic behind that decision?


simple. INSURANCE. The rental companies have to provide insurance. How many private riders have insurance. I bet none?

The BBC News at 6pm just said you will also need a driving licence :shock: good luck on that one

mercalia
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Re: Escooter trial to start

Postby mercalia » 1 Jul 2020, 5:24pm


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Cunobelin
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Re: Escooter trial to start

Postby Cunobelin » 1 Jul 2020, 6:00pm

In Prague they have a variety from the small Lime Scooter through bigger versions based loosely on "Kick bike design, and seats


Image

... and the Scroozers

Image


They are not popular with locals tough and they are about to be banned from Prague 1 (pedestrianised historical areas)
Last edited by Cunobelin on 1 Jul 2020, 6:07pm, edited 1 time in total.

mercalia
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Re: Escooter trial to start

Postby mercalia » 1 Jul 2020, 6:07pm

lol those pseudo emotor-bikes would go down well here. I can just imagine the typical miscreant leaving the road in Streatham to cut thru the traffic jam and mount onto the pavement :roll: and they would as thats the point of them? why would they remain in deadlocked traffic? and thats why escooters are a dubious idea in our narrow roads? I contacted the Met. yesterday and received a response to day saying they are reviewing what can be done


On 22nd May 2020 a circular email was sent to Response Team officers working in Lambeth and Southwark about the use of escooters and the legislation that covers them. As you correctly pointed out the powers available to police officers in dealing with those using escooters on a road or pavement is quite powerful and can result in a £300 fine and 6 points on a driving licence.

What I propose on doing is making your Local Policing Team (LPT) aware of your concern and it may be the case that they can dedicate some patrols to tackling this issue.


is that just a brush off you think?
Last edited by mercalia on 1 Jul 2020, 6:10pm, edited 1 time in total.