Less policing ‘causing rise in road deaths in England and Wales’

Mike Sales
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Joined: 7 Mar 2009, 3:31pm

Re: Less policing ‘causing rise in road deaths in England and Wales’

Postby Mike Sales » 19 Feb 2021, 2:15pm

[quote="Stevek76"
Also chat with passengers tends to be irrelevant small talk for the most part, phone calls are far more likely to have something that actually requires concentration from the driver.

[/quote]

There are unlikely to be studies that show that having a row with the wife whilst driving increases accident rate.

I one remonstrated with a driver who cut me up and his passenger told me they were just coming from a funeral, as if that excused dangerous driving!

Mike Sales
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Joined: 7 Mar 2009, 3:31pm

Re: Less policing ‘causing rise in road deaths in England and Wales’

Postby Mike Sales » 19 Feb 2021, 2:38pm

Mike Sales wrote:
Stevek76 wrote:Also chat with passengers tends to be irrelevant small talk for the most part, phone calls are far more likely to have something that actually requires concentration from the driver.



There are unlikely to be studies that show that having a row with the wife whilst driving increases accident rate.

I one remonstrated with a driver who cut me up and his passenger told me they were just coming from a funeral, as if that excused dangerous driving!

thirdcrank
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Re: Less policing ‘causing rise in road deaths in England and Wales’

Postby thirdcrank » 19 Feb 2021, 2:41pm

I see a difference between explaining poor driving and justifying it.

Mike Sales
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Joined: 7 Mar 2009, 3:31pm

Re: Less policing ‘causing rise in road deaths in England and Wales’

Postby Mike Sales » 19 Feb 2021, 2:50pm

thirdcrank wrote:I see a difference between explaining poor driving and justifying it.


I did gather from his tone that he thought I should make allowances, but because only my own alertness saved me from possible injury, I was disinclined to do this.
If he felt that grief caused carelessness, maybe he should have done the driving himself.

John Holiday
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Joined: 2 Nov 2007, 2:01pm

Re: Less policing ‘causing rise in road deaths in England and Wales’

Postby John Holiday » 20 Feb 2021, 3:32pm

As a Community Speed Watch volunteer, am not surprised by this data. Bearing in mind the cost of a Serious Accident, it is surprising that more effort is not made on Traffic Policing. We were shocked to be told that “Road Safety is not a North Wales Police priority “!

thirdcrank
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Re: Less policing ‘causing rise in road deaths in England and Wales’

Postby thirdcrank » 20 Feb 2021, 3:53pm

That must be particularly apparent to anybody who remembers when Richard Brunstrom was the chief

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Brunstrom

John Holiday
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Joined: 2 Nov 2007, 2:01pm

Re: Less policing ‘causing rise in road deaths in England and Wales’

Postby John Holiday » 20 Feb 2021, 6:04pm

Indeed, sadly missed.
We could certainly do with someone with his drive & determination!

Fruity
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Joined: 17 May 2017, 9:10pm

Re: Less policing ‘causing rise in road deaths in England and Wales’

Postby Fruity » 21 Feb 2021, 4:54pm

Bearing in mind the cost of a Serious Accident, it is surprising that more effort is not made on Traffic Policing.


Brunstrom retired in 2009. A year later, then-Home Secretary Theresa May slashed police budgets. Traffic police numbers have plummeted since then (reportedly.)

The real story is that numbers were already in freefall during the previous decade - motorcycle newspaper MCN made a FoI request around 2003 iirc and reported the story.

Why were numbers falling? I'd guess forces were using the posts freed up to bolster other units and departments that were coming to the fore, time and again.

Why are numbers still low despite HMICFRS inspecting and criticising roads policing provision last year? Because many forces are struggling to resource their response teams (in layman's terms, those that respond to 999 calls of burglaries, domestic assaults, collisions of all sorts, pub violence etc) to a level where they can attend all their highest priority "emergency" incidents in timely fashion. Cuts have had consequences. Bolstering one dept at the expense of others causes further problems. I know a detective who deals with sexual offences like rapes, who is carrying 18 individual cases. I think that is completely unsustainable.

Another problem for roads policing is that all the experience has gone. The experience to properly train new specialist officers has gone. The willingness of experienced officers to further specialise (as specialist collision investigators for example ) has gone because while they juggle workload with being on call, they're also now expected to obtain degrees and other professional qualifications without any allowance made.

There now a national shortage of collision investigators (that's those who do the surveying, measuring, calculating for serious injury and fatal RTCs.).

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RickH
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Location: Horwich, Lancs.

Re: Less policing ‘causing rise in road deaths in England and Wales’

Postby RickH » 21 Feb 2021, 7:33pm

Fruity wrote:There now a national shortage of collision investigators (that's those who do the surveying, measuring, calculating for serious injury and fatal RTCs.).

I don't know how far technology is helping. A decade or so ago we were friends with a guy doing a post grad study using computer modelling initially aimed at being able to tell what would happen to a car, crumple zones, etc., during a crash. They spent a lot of time crashing cars & measuring what happened so they could replicate the real world in software. At some stage someone realised that they could make a successful business, eventually operating in North America, out of selling a system to do the reverse & being able to tell what had happened by starting with measuring a mangled car & working out what it had done to get there - speed, direction, etc.

John Holiday
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Re: Less policing ‘causing rise in road deaths in England and Wales’

Postby John Holiday » 22 Feb 2021, 4:52pm

Inappropriate speed is the major factor in most collisions.
I won’t call them ‘accidents’, as there is usually an element of negligence involved.
Remember being told this by Policemen in his Accident Investigation labelled van.
We have to get this over to drivers, who are totally isolated and insulated in their armoured boxes.
Welsh Assembly bringing in blanket 20mph speed limits in 2023.

Fruity
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Re: Less policing ‘causing rise in road deaths in England and Wales’

Postby Fruity » 22 Feb 2021, 9:22pm

RickH wrote:
Fruity wrote:There now a national shortage of collision investigators (that's those who do the surveying, measuring, calculating for serious injury and fatal RTCs.).


I don't know how far technology is helping. A decade or so ago we were friends with a guy doing a post grad study using computer modelling initially aimed at being able to tell what would happen to a car, crumple zones, etc., during a crash.


I think technology has probably made the end product - a report to prove or disprove (in court) the causes of a collision - more detailed e.g. Data from all the sensors, apps, dash cams, mobile phones etc.

More data means more time, effort and analysis to produce that report. Vastly more data means vastly more analysis and so on. That might also mean there more to dispute or refute.