Cycling: not Hereford, not anywhere?

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mjr
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Re: Cycling: not Hereford, not anywhere?

Postby mjr » 27 Sep 2015, 11:28pm

Silverdorking wrote:Your 'cycle free' zone extends to a very limited, central, pedestrianised area, making up the principle shopping offer, known as High Town. Freedom from all wheeled vehicles makes for a reasonably relaxed shopping experience which I for one, even as an inveterate cyclist appreciate! Cycling through High Town in contravention of 'pedestrianised' zoning is currently very sensitive following the death of a pedestrian though the rash and irresponsible actions of a cyclist.

What makes Hereford special and rash and irresponsible cyclists there obey the cycling prohibitions?

Also, even if the prohibition was repealed, wouldn't wanton cycling remain illegal?

I do struggle to understand why allowing responsible cycling in otherwise pedestrianised streets works in Italy, Portugal, Switzerland, Spain, the Netherlands... but for some reason wouldn't work in the UK. No, all we get is told to choose between getting off and walking (if physically possible) which is slower than walking without pushing a bike and using some really hostile roads that were designed without considering cycling.

With local knowledge, traversing Hereford in any direction, or access to attractions can be reasonably easily achieved. These routes could benefit from greater signage!

So how does one traverse the centre south to north or west to east?
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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Silverdorking
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Re: Cycling: not Hereford, not anywhere?

Postby Silverdorking » 27 Sep 2015, 11:51pm

As a Herefordian and a cyclist, I'm afraid I just don't recognise the city Horizon describes! Although realising local knowledge can breed complacency, I just don't see the problem which a relaxed, small pedestrianised shopping zone creates for the benefit of all users.Convenient, safe cycle storage is provided at all approaches to High Town and nothing prevents the wheeling of bikes through pedestrianised 'High Town'. To try and put the scale of this area into some sort of rational perspective, it takes less than 2 minutes to traverse the shopping centre in any direction, on foot. Any of you who know the frequency at which markets, festivals and other events occupy this space would appreciate why to ride through is undesirable during the commercial day.
Your determination to polarised the experiences of car v cycle users is, I think, a diversion from the real transport problems faced by Hereford, namely unalieviated congestion, a function of excessive vehicle reliance, poor public transport and chronic underfunding, affecting all road users, be they in their car or on their bike.

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mjr
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Re: Cycling: not Hereford, not anywhere?

Postby mjr » 28 Sep 2015, 12:11am

Your determination to polarised the experiences of car v cycle users is, I think, a diversion from the real transport problems faced by Hereford, namely unalieviated congestion, a function of excessive vehicle reliance, poor public transport and chronic underfunding, affecting all road users, be they in their car or on their bike.

Huh? I've no such determination. I just don't understand why cycling is made unnecessarily difficult, in contravention of current guidance.

So why is Hereford congested and not getting on their bike? Horizon's outsider's view suggests some possible reasons. I don't know the city, so please excuse me if these questions are daft:
1. What/where is this convenient, safe cycle storage? I saw open-air staples on the maps.
2. Have you tried wheeling a fully-laden cargo bike through a crowded area? It's slow, wide, unstable and a strength challenge.
3. How does one cycle across the city centre south to north or west to east? It seems relatively simple to "except cycles" on the one-ways and create a corridor through the blockage zone at the north end, but if there are already routes through, then that would explain why it hasn't been done.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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brooksby
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Re: Cycling: not Hereford, not anywhere?

Postby brooksby » 28 Sep 2015, 10:40am

Silverdorking wrote: Cycling through High Town in contravention of 'pedestrianised' zoning is currently very sensitive following the death of a pedestrian though the rash and irresponsible actions of a cyclist.


I guess that injuries caused to pedestrians by cyclists (even ones illegally on the footpath) really do suffer from that "Man bites dog" effect. Look at the number of pedestrians or cyclists killed or injured by motor vehicles: if the same proportionate response was taken as a consequence, in every case, we would have banned motor vehicles from everywhere except motorways a long time ago...

brooksby
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Re: Cycling: not Hereford, not anywhere?

Postby brooksby » 28 Sep 2015, 10:46am

mjr wrote:What/where is this convenient, safe cycle storage? I saw open-air staples on the maps.


A bit off topic, I know, but many motorists do think that open air sheffield stands are "convenient, safe cycle storage". Because they can leave their cars at the side of the road, they presume that cyclists are happy to have that too. They don't think that a bike is a teensy bit more vulnerable to theft, and would never dream of creating cycle storage more akin to a multi storey car park...

My local shopping area/centre is Broadmead in Bristol, and they have two multi storey car parks within a couple of hundred metres (totalling thousands of car parking space) but sheffield stands for no more than fifty bikes. And some of those are in a semi-privatised BID section where you're not actually allowed to ride a bike.

700c
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Re: Cycling: not Hereford, not anywhere?

Postby 700c » 28 Sep 2015, 6:04pm

Is it not still the case that the "no cycle zone" is the pedestrianised bit, and that is no cycling between 10am and 5pm ?

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horizon
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Re: Cycling: not Hereford, not anywhere?

Postby horizon » 30 Sep 2015, 2:17pm

Silverdorking wrote: To try and put the scale of this area into some sort of rational perspective, it takes less than 2 minutes to traverse the shopping centre in any direction, on foot.


I've just done a bit of going around the city centre on foot, visiting various points, backtracking on BikeHike. I used just the two main pedestrianised streets and reached 1.6 km without really trying. This was similar to my first real experience of Hereford when I hoped to cycle around, see the city centre, check out some cafes and then finally complete my traverse and head north. The bicycle is ideal for this and the very wide (previously motorised) streets have plenty of room for both pedestrians and cyclists.
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PS I always wondered why the YHA HQ was called Trevelyan House. :)

John Holiday
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Re: Cycling: not Hereford, not anywhere?

Postby John Holiday » 30 Sep 2015, 4:05pm

Regarding the earlier queries regarding how 'cycle friendly' or otherwise Hereford might be, do they not have a Cycle Campaign Group?

Silverdorking
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Re: Cycling: not Hereford, not anywhere?

Postby Silverdorking » 11 Oct 2015, 4:42pm

Horizon, please see the use that your cycle way through Hereford Centre is routinely put to and again tell me it represents a suitable route when as I suggested there are already sensible alternatives and more being developed! These are the conditions under which an unfortunate woman lost her life, all be it by the actions of an irresponsible cyclist!
Yes, there is a cycle championing group in the county, looking to enhance cycling experience in the city but not at the expense of pedestrians, enjoying the benefits of stress free shopping in the Hightown. http://www.cyclehereford.org.uk

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horizon
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Re: Cycling: not Hereford, not anywhere?

Postby horizon » 11 Oct 2015, 6:20pm

Silverdorking wrote: but not at the expense of pedestrians


Silverdorking: I can't help you on this. My post was about cycling in and through Hereford.
I have two doctors, my left leg and my right leg. (G. M. Trevelyan)
PS I always wondered why the YHA HQ was called Trevelyan House. :)

Richard Fairhurst
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Re: Cycling: not Hereford, not anywhere?

Postby Richard Fairhurst » 11 Oct 2015, 7:21pm

As a semi-regular visitor to Hereford - it's an easy train ride from here, and I occasionally use it as the start of a ride - I do very much recognise horizon's description.

The market in High Town should be no obstacle to permitting cycling on a north-south axis: Widemarsh Street, High Street, Broad Street, with cycle contraflows as appropriate. Nor should it be an obstacle to a contraflow on East Street. Neither of those would be "at the expense of pedestrians".

Pedestrians in Hereford have their own routes through. So do cars - given that the horrible ring road is effectively off-limits to all but the most confident. Cyclists don't.
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Re: Cycling: not Hereford, not anywhere?

Postby meic » 11 Oct 2015, 9:33pm

I was eavesdropping on a conversation about Hereford's meetings to apply for status as a transition town.
The speaker was complaining that the attitude from the Council about traffic considerations was "This is a rural market town, car is king, people will not use anything else, no point in trying to make them use anything else."
I was eavesdropping and I dont even know the name of who was speaking. So purely hearsay.

I must say that the Hereford-shire drivers are more actively anti cyclist than any others I can think of, it is quite regular to have oncoming drivers gesticulating that you should be in the gutter and even crossing the centreline to encourage you to do so more forcibly. I have had that more times in the less than 1% of my cycling miles when in Herefordshire than in the 99% out of Herefordshire!
Yma o Hyd

pwa
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Re: Cycling: not Hereford, not anywhere?

Postby pwa » 12 Oct 2015, 3:35pm

meic wrote:I was eavesdropping on a conversation about Hereford's meetings to apply for status as a transition town.
The speaker was complaining that the attitude from the Council about traffic considerations was "This is a rural market town, car is king, people will not use anything else, no point in trying to make them use anything else."
I was eavesdropping and I dont even know the name of who was speaking. So purely hearsay.

I must say that the Hereford-shire drivers are more actively anti cyclist than any others I can think of, it is quite regular to have oncoming drivers gesticulating that you should be in the gutter and even crossing the centreline to encourage you to do so more forcibly. I have had that more times in the less than 1% of my cycling miles when in Herefordshire than in the 99% out of Herefordshire!


Must be something in the water. Or the cider.

Fasgadh
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Re: Cycling: not Hereford, not anywhere?

Postby Fasgadh » 15 Oct 2015, 5:40pm

I know one who actively boasts that one of the perks of his job is leaving thorns on the road after cutting hedges.

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Re: Cycling: not Hereford, not anywhere?

Postby andy_l » 27 Oct 2015, 1:34pm

I've just come across this thread which is quite an eye-opener: I did a LEJOG ride with my son in August and Hereford was one of our stops - a great B&B overlooking the river. But Hereford was the only place in the entire journey where we were taken to task by an angry pedestrian for cycling in what I now know is a no-cycling zone. It was a very pleasant Saturday morning, about 9am, we headed off into the central area to find food & drinks for the day. There seemed to be no obvious way into or across the centre, so we rode, very slowly, into the 'shopping area streets'. This is quite normal in the equivalent area of Bristol where I live, (Broadmead) although it's often not practical because of the numbers of pedestrians. But in Hereford, the shops were just opening and there was plenty of space. We didn't see any 'No cycling' signs but may have missed them. The angry haranguer did mention something about a pedestrian being killed by a cyclist - for the sake of good relations we got off and walked - incidentally having to avoid the odd car/van delivering to shops. So - Hereford - lovely place, with a fine statue of Elgar leaning on his beloved bicycle, by the cathedral - in a place now impossible to reach by bicycle. We just left with the feeling that bicycles weren't welcome.