Cyclists Dismount

Geoffroid
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Cyclists Dismount

Postby Geoffroid » 19 Oct 2015, 7:54pm

I have noticed four cattle grids around Allenheads have "Cyclists Dismount" signs (three of them on the C2C route). Am I correct in thinking it is now generally agreed these signs should not be used?

Flite
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Re: Cyclists Dismount

Postby Flite » 19 Oct 2015, 8:39pm

Some of the cattlegrids are in a dangerous condition - I reported one to the Northumberland CC a few weeks ago, particularly mentioning that it was dangerous for cyclists (it is on the Sustrans C2C).
so in addition to the cyclists dismount sign, there is now a Slow sign. Useless
The cg to the west of Allenheads just had a thick lump of sheet metal over it for years before they mended it.
Just another example of how the rural population is regarded by councils and government.....

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661-Pete
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Re: Cyclists Dismount

Postby 661-Pete » 19 Oct 2015, 10:57pm

I think, where the safety of cyclists due to the condition of the road is an issue - for example in the vicinity of tram tracks or a level crossing - that such warnings are justified. They may not carry legal force but surely commonsense prevails?

I know of a road bridge in France which is constructed of wooden planks laid lengthwise, with gaps in between. The CYCLISTS DISMOUNT sign (or rather, its French equivalent) is surely not going to be questioned!

However, if the hazard is due to neglect by the appropriate authority, this is a different matter.
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
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drossall
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Re: Cyclists Dismount

Postby drossall » 19 Oct 2015, 11:26pm

There was a sign along the main road near us today, "Cycle lane closed: cyclists dismount". The bizarre thing is that this cycle lane is used by motorists as a parking lane for the nearby station, so it's always closed :roll:

So what difference did the roadworks make? Well, they narrowed the road just a little more, making it somewhat less likely that motorists would squeeze past in the face of oncoming traffic.

So it was safer to ride when they told us to dismount than it is the rest of the time :roll: :roll:

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Cyclists Dismount

Postby [XAP]Bob » 20 Oct 2015, 10:37am

Cattle grid in poor condition
Road in poor condition

Either of those would be more appropriate than a widely used and ignored sign. Most "cyclists begone" signs have no force in law and respond to no actual requirement on the ground...
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MikeF
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Re: Cyclists Dismount

Postby MikeF » 20 Oct 2015, 11:52am

The Cyclists Dismount sign is a complete anomaly. It appears as though it's a mandatory instruction to cyclists to dismount, but blue rectangular signs are those that give information.
Mandatory instructions are given by circular signs.https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/222621/dg_191955.pdf. Therefore its purpose would seem to be to inform other road users that (some) cyclists may be dismounting. :?

However even the DfT itself seems to be confused "Pedal cyclists to dismount at end of, or break in, a cycle lane, track or route". What's a break in the track?? Is a cattle grid a cycle track??

The recommendation is that this sign is replaced by "cyclists rejoin carriageway", which gives a completely different interpretation of the sign. :wink:
http://www.cycling-embassy.org.uk/dictionary/cyclists-dismount
and on here https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/cycling/draft-london-cycling-design-standards/user_uploads/ch6-signs-and-markings.pdf page 278 it states sign has no statutory meaning!
DfT still permits use of "cyclists dismount" even though it recommends "cyclists rejoin carriageway".


A blue rectangular sign with "P" indicates a car parking area, but there is absolutely no mandatory requirement for motorists to park at that place!! :lol: :lol:

Perhaps there needs to be a consultation with DfT about these signs?
"It takes a genius to spot the obvious" - my old physics master

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661-Pete
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Re: Cyclists Dismount

Postby 661-Pete » 20 Oct 2015, 1:41pm

There's only one approved mandatory sign that means "cyclists dismount". This one:
Image
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).

beardy
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Re: Cyclists Dismount

Postby beardy » 20 Oct 2015, 1:49pm


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moultoneer
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Re: Cyclists Dismount

Postby moultoneer » 20 Oct 2015, 2:27pm

London Borough of Hillingdon puts up Cyclists Dismount signs at roadworks, despite my pointing out that the DfT says they shouldn't be:

Cyclist dismount and footway cycling
Where access is permitted for motor vehicles, "Cyclist Dismount" signs should not be used. The hazards to cyclists at roadworks are rarely great enough to justify this measure. In any case, cyclists are likely to ignore such instructions. The only situation where cyclists should be advised to dismount is where the carriageway is closed off but the footway remains open. In such cases a white-on-red temporary sign "CYCLISTS DISMOUNT AND USE FOOTWAY" may be used. Under Regulation 41 of the "Transport Signs Regulations And General Directions 1994" this can be done without special authorisation if the sign is not used for longer than 6 months.

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mjr
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Re: Cyclists Dismount

Postby mjr » 20 Oct 2015, 2:42pm

moultoneer wrote:London Borough of Hillingdon puts up Cyclists Dismount signs at roadworks, despite my pointing out that the DfT says they shouldn't be:

Never mind shouldn't. The Street Works Act requires roadworks to follow the Code of Practice on Safety at Street Works that you quote, so they must not use those signs like that. Sadly, as usual for this Dave New World of Localism, the same councils failing to obey the Street Works Act seem to be the ones responsible for enforcing it :roll:

Could we elect a less impotent UK government next time, please?

As for the "CYCLISTS DISMOUNT" signs - they shouldn't be used. If there is a hazard, highway authorities should use the appropriate warning sign and not make people guess. If there's no hazard, remove the sign.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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simonineaston
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Re: Cyclists Dismount

Postby simonineaston » 20 Oct 2015, 2:50pm

A thought occurred to me on reading recent posts in this thread, which is that so much information is available so quickly to all and sundry that conformity and consistency is now a thing of the past... Instead of going to the boss in the old way and asking him (it was usually a male in The Past...) what to do, now-a-days, everybody thinks they're an expert about everything and so just go ahead and do it...
Notions like Do As You Are Told and That's How We Do Things Here are regarded, unsafely in some instances it seems, as no longer valid.
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Si
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Re: Cyclists Dismount

Postby Si » 20 Oct 2015, 5:01pm

There's been one in the middle of Birmingham next to the new tram tracks, it reads "Cyclist Dismount", but as it doesn't specific which particular cyclist should dismount everyone ignores it.......that and the fact that if you do dismount you are then stood in a dual carriage way with no pavement to step onto!

Geoffroid
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Re: Cyclists Dismount

Postby Geoffroid » 20 Oct 2015, 5:24pm

Thanks for all the replies. I have asked for an explanation from the Council as to why these signs have been put up. I have now seen them on four cattle grids, and it is starting to look like they are on a mission to put them on all cattle grids in the area. I now have some good information to help with my reply when I get a response from the Council.

jochta
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Re: Cyclists Dismount

Postby jochta » 20 Oct 2015, 6:25pm

There were a set of "Cycle lane closed: cyclists dismount" signs during roadworks on the A4130 near Didcot a while ago which involved closing the narrow footpath too...

a) there is no cycle lane on this road
b) what are cyclists supposed to do? Walk down the middle of the A-road? Stop cycling and go home?

Utterly pointless and just an excuse for drivers to get impatient with cyclists negotiating the temporary traffic lights.

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Re: Cyclists Dismount

Postby Vitara » 20 Oct 2015, 9:22pm

Similar signs have been placed on a bridge near me (Haslar Bridge). Actually they read "Cylists Dismount for your own safety". Its a single track bridge and work is being done underneath. There is extensive scaffolding on the pavements but nearly the full width of the road is clear. It is closed to road traffic but still open to pedestrians and cyclists (with the dismount sign).

I've crossed it several times since it's been closed. 1st time there was no dismount sign, 2nd time myself and another cyclist were told to dismount by a workman - for no obvious reason. Then the signs appeared and more recently barriers have been placed across 2/3rds of the width of the road.

Given that there is a full 2 metres of road available, there are no workman on the bridge, all the work is happening on the underside & pedestrian use is extremely light, I'm at a total loss to see how cycling across can be a risk to my safety or anyone elses. Last time I crossed it I was the only person on the bridge and chose to ignore the signs. It's reassuring to learn they have no legal standing.

I should perhaps add that if I were to encounter pedestrians or workman on the road I would be happy to slow down, stop or dismount as required.