Crossing on Red. No One Complains About Pedestrians

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Crossing on Red. No One Complains About Pedestrians

Postby [XAP]Bob » 23 Jan 2016, 10:02pm

I'd far rather have presumed liability than jay walking regs...

People get very confused on my commute when The suddenly notice I'm behind them (usually parents and kids) and my response is that 'it isn't a race track'
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

kwackers
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Re: Crossing on Red. No One Complains About Pedestrians

Postby kwackers » 26 Jan 2016, 12:27pm

The upshot of motorists who think their right to make progress outweighs others safety is stuff like this:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35410565

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Crossing on Red. No One Complains About Pedestrians

Postby [XAP]Bob » 26 Jan 2016, 12:57pm

{FFE - family-friendly edit } - they weren't even on the left side of the road.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

orangebiker
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Re: Crossing on Red. No One Complains About Pedestrians

Postby orangebiker » 2 Mar 2016, 11:06am

One of the great things a green party councillor did in my area was to change the pedestrian crossing light so that the car light goes red virtually instantly when the button is pressed. At first it caused some drivers to almost do an emergency stop!
When I first got the flier throught he door I thought 'What is the point of that', but now I see it gives priority for pedestrians, whilst also avoiding the situation of cars waiting when the person has crossed ages ago - so it's win win. They should all be like that.
Another thing is that a zebra crossing was recently installed to allow people to cross a 20 mph road to get to the park. This took weeks of digging up the road and putting in little jutting out refuges, etc. Whereas in other countires they have zebra rossing every few yeards in urban areas and it just needs a bit of paint not loads of expensive alterations. In Ghent where we stayed there were so many zebras that pedestrians effectively had priority all the time. A good way to encourage people to walk/cycle as it is so much quicker and safer. Cars were looking well ahead and giving way to others rather than the aggressive speeding off from junctions that we see in the UK.
Cheap and cheerful solutions can be very effective.
Roll on car free society....

Bmblbzzz
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Re: Crossing on Red. No One Complains About Pedestrians

Postby Bmblbzzz » 2 Mar 2016, 11:15am

I absolutely agree about the delay in pelican crossings, it's a loser for all.

I'm not so sure about the pedestrian crossings though. I've never been to Ghent but it certainly isn't like that in all "other countries"! And many other European countries have laws forbidding crossing the road except at an authorised crossing and fine you for crossing on red man, which is very restrictive.

Bicycler
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Re: Crossing on Red. No One Complains About Pedestrians

Postby Bicycler » 2 Mar 2016, 11:54am

+1 to that, I was going to make that point. If the price of more crossings is jaywalking laws then they aren't worth the price.

orangebiker
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Re: Crossing on Red. No One Complains About Pedestrians

Postby orangebiker » 2 Mar 2016, 1:24pm

I agree that jaywalking laws are a Bad Idea

The point about the multiple crossings is not just that you can cross the road easier but that the behaviour of drivers is changed, they need to be much more observant and careful, rather than assuming the road belongs to them, and priority in urban areas goes to pedestrians rather than cars

There's a 4 way junction at the end of my road where a lot of people are crossing in the morning. cars are constantly nearly running people over as they swing round the corner and people are trying to cross side roads. Old people and those with young children wait for ages whereas the young and fit just nip across in between the cars. A zebra crossing on each road would solve this as cars would have to drive more slowly and wait for people. Then at other times when it is quiet (night time) cars can cross the junction more quickly, without being slowed down by unnecessary lights/bumps/narrowings etc.

Bmblbzzz
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Re: Crossing on Red. No One Complains About Pedestrians

Postby Bmblbzzz » 2 Mar 2016, 1:34pm

Fair point, but it does depend on a certain initial respect for crossings from drivers, which presumably drivers in Ghent have. There are many places where that isn't part of the driving culture and you'd be waiting for ages until there was a gap anyway. Watch those youtube videos of Russian dashcams for an example! I'd like to think there are places where you don't need crossings at all because drivers are alert to people wanting to cross anywhere...

kwackers
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Re: Crossing on Red. No One Complains About Pedestrians

Postby kwackers » 2 Mar 2016, 1:37pm

Bmblbzzz wrote:I'd like to think there are places where you don't need crossings at all because drivers are alert to people wanting to cross anywhere...

I was in a village in Norway, walking along minding my own business when I stopped to look at the shops over the road. Instantly the traffic stopped and out of embarrassment I crossed the road (even though I didn't want to cross, just look)...

That's Norway though, in this country even when you have the precedence your average motorist will drive at you with their hand on the horn...

Pete Owens
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Re: Crossing on Red. No One Complains About Pedestrians

Postby Pete Owens » 2 Mar 2016, 9:59pm

Bmblbzzz wrote:I'd like to think there are places where you don't need crossings at all because drivers are alert to people wanting to cross anywhere...


There is such a place in my part of the world...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... vzDDMzq7d0
You only have to look as if you have a vague intention to cross and drivers stop for you.

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Swizz69
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Re: Crossing on Red. No One Complains About Pedestrians

Postby Swizz69 » 25 Mar 2016, 8:18pm

Phil Fouracre wrote:Why should anyone complain about pedestrians? Surely they should always have priority. Only insane car centric societies have jaywalking laws! Priority should always be to design road layouts to make people to look out for each other. That's what some new designs are doing now, removing distracting instructional signs, and mixing different modes of transport. Long may this trend continue.
Just as a complete aside, leaving local Tesco a couple of days ago, took up primary as I approached road junction. Old guy trying to cross in front of me, grinned at him, and waited, waved his sticks as a thank you. Promptly got blasted by car behind me, ah well, we've still got a long way to go :-)


Please don't be referring to 'shared space' schemes. If they are being viewed as a cure-all then we clearly have got a long way to go!

The only pedestrian problems I find on a bike are those that look you in the eye before stepping out in front of you. Riding through Stockport last weekend, it was only anticipation that helped me stop in time to avoid riding into someone. Given the opportunity I'll gladly slow/stop/swerve around anyone but performing emergency manoevers shouldn't be necessary! :shock:

Phil Fouracre
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Re: Crossing on Red. No One Complains About Pedestrians

Postby Phil Fouracre » 26 Mar 2016, 6:52am

Swizz69 wrote:
Phil Fouracre wrote:Why should anyone complain about pedestrians? Surely they should always have priority. Only insane car centric societies have jaywalking laws! Priority should always be to design road layouts to make people to look out for each other. That's what some new designs are doing now, removing distracting instructional signs, and mixing different modes of transport. Long may this trend continue.
Just as a complete aside, leaving local Tesco a couple of days ago, took up primary as I approached road junction. Old guy trying to cross in front of me, grinned at him, and waited, waved his sticks as a thank you. Promptly got blasted by car behind me, ah well, we've still got a long way to go :-)


Please don't be referring to 'shared space' schemes. If they are being viewed as a cure-all then we clearly have got a long way to go!

The only pedestrian problems I find on a bike are those that look you in the eye before stepping out in front of you. Riding through Stockport last weekend, it was only anticipation that helped me stop in time to avoid riding into someone. Given the opportunity I'll gladly slow/stop/swerve around anyone but performing emergency manoevers shouldn't be necessary! :shock:


There are good and bad shared space schemes, just like there are intelligent and stupid human beings :-)
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity