Crossing on Red. No One Complains About Pedestrians

[Bicycler]

When I read the first post I truly despaired. I'm heartened by some of the replies which mean I don't feel obliged to have a half-page rant (so we can all be thankful ).

The one point that has been missed:

Maybe a campaign to make the media, drivers, politicians, etc aware how pedestrians are the worst light jumpers may take a bit of the tediously repetitive pressure off us cyclists.

It would be such a massive own goal for cycle campaigners to do something like that:

- It would instantly backfire because people would point to the legality of pedestrians crossing the road compared to the illegality of cyclists running red lights. Cue opportunity for more "why do cyclists think they are above the law" articles.

- It would victimise and alienate our greatest potential ally, the other huge group of travellers who have been marginalised, endangered and inconvenienced by the prioritisation of motor traffic.

- In turn it would fan the flames of pedestrian/cyclist conflict.

- It would play right into the hands of the motor lobby which would happily see pedestrian traffic regulated ("jaywalking" laws etc.) and wishes road safety discussion to focus upon the trivial misdemeanours of vulnerable road users rather than the vehicles which actually cause of injury and death.

- It would disadvantage cyclists who would suddenly feel obliged to obey red cycle lamps on toucan crossings. Some cyclists inevitably ignoring such lights would be brought up as evidence of our blatant hypocrisy.

- It would completely miss the point by failing to understand the inconvenience suffered by pedestrians. At least we only have a single traffic light per junction - pedestrians often have four.

Not quite half a page...

[kwackers]

The OP does remind me of an 'incident' that occurred some time ago.

I was working in Japan and the Japanese obey the red/green man with absolutism. (I on the other hand am British...)
So I was waiting at the side of the road with the crowd when I spotted a gap in the traffic and decided to go for it. As I stepped off the pavement - so did everyone else (because obviously nobody would cross if the light was against them.)
The ensuing confusion and the look of bewilderment on the drivers face was a thing to behold. It was as if the laws of physics had suddenly stopped working!

[[XAP]Bob]

Walking back to our church from the Remembrance parade MiniBob had been in was lovely.

As MiniBob is still quite young she wasn't in the last parade back down the street, so the road was closed. She loved skipping along the white lines and suggested we could arrange a parade on our road so the road could be closed.

We really do need to reclaim streets much more often!

[RickH]

Apologies if I've missed it if it has been said already. I just wanted to point out that, when comparing with behaviour in other countries, there are laws against crossing on red (USA & Germany are two I believe).

Rick.

[Mark1978]

Walking back to our church from the Remembrance parade MiniBob had been in was lovely.

As MiniBob is still quite young she wasn't in the last parade back down the street, so the road was closed. She loved skipping along the white lines and suggested we could arrange a parade on our road so the road could be closed.

We really do need to reclaim streets much more often!

Yet in Chester-le-Street, main street was closed off for the parade, side streets coned off, after the parade went through car appeared at the cones and driver began beeping insistently at the road worker standing nearby to move the cones and let him through - eventually he was allowed through!

[[XAP]Bob]

Walking back to our church from the Remembrance parade MiniBob had been in was lovely.

As MiniBob is still quite young she wasn't in the last parade back down the street, so the road was closed. She loved skipping along the white lines and suggested we could arrange a parade on our road so the road could be closed.

We really do need to reclaim streets much more often!

Yet in Chester-le-Street, main street was closed off for the parade, side streets coned off, after the parade went through car appeared at the cones and driver began beeping insistently at the road worker standing nearby to move the cones and let him through - eventually he was allowed through!

The road workers around here were very nicely directing the traffic elsewhere. I presume that at the advertised "end time" a resident might have wanted access, but I saw no aggro at all...

[blackbike]

I often cycle slowly at walking pace across junctions when the lights are all on red and pedestrians are crossing.

Yet I still get silly toots from motorists who are annoyed at me.

But what difference does it make to them? Would they be happier if I got off my bike and walked it across? And if so why?

[mjr]

Apologies if I've missed it if it has been said already. I just wanted to point out that, when comparing with behaviour in other countries, there are laws against crossing on red (USA & Germany are two I believe).

Maybe not in Germany for much longer! I've been told the cross-on-red laws are rarely enforced, but Berlin started actually enforcing them, fined people over €2million in just over a year and thereby provoked the opposition Left into proposing these unjust laws are repealed http://www.wsj.com/articles/would-germa ... 1445907439

[MikeF]

Walking back to our church from the Remembrance parade MiniBob had been in was lovely.

As MiniBob is still quite young she wasn't in the last parade back down the street, so the road was closed. She loved skipping along the white lines and suggested we could arrange a parade on our road so the road could be closed.

We really do need to reclaim streets much more often!

+1
Local streets were closed around here and the other noticeable feature was how quite it was, emphasising just how noisy motor vehicles are even at slow speed. There weren't even cycles to contend with.
The sad thing was that after the ceremony there were cries of "Where's the car?", "The car's over there", "Meet you at the car", "I've parked......" etc. I'm sure many couldn't have lived more than a mile away.

[MikeF]

When I read the first post I truly despaired. I'm heartened by some of the replies which mean I don't feel obliged to have a half-page rant (so we can all be thankful ).

The one point that has been missed:

Maybe a campaign to make the media, drivers, politicians, etc aware how pedestrians are the worst light jumpers may take a bit of the tediously repetitive pressure off us cyclists.

It would be such a massive own goal for cycle campaigners to do something like that:

- It would instantly backfire because people would point to the legality of pedestrians crossing the road compared to the illegality of cyclists running red lights. Cue opportunity for more "why do cyclists think they are above the law" articles.

- It would victimise and alienate our greatest potential ally, the other huge group of travellers who have been marginalised, endangered and inconvenienced by the prioritisation of motor traffic.

- In turn it would fan the flames of pedestrian/cyclist conflict.

- It would play right into the hands of the motor lobby which would happily see pedestrian traffic regulated ("jaywalking" laws etc.) and wishes road safety discussion to focus upon the trivial misdemeanours of vulnerable road users rather than the vehicles which actually cause of injury and death.

- It would disadvantage cyclists who would suddenly feel obliged to obey red cycle lamps on toucan crossings. Some cyclists inevitably ignoring such lights would be brought up as evidence of our blatant hypocrisy.

- It would completely miss the point by failing to understand the inconvenience suffered by pedestrians. At least we only have a single traffic light per junction - pedestrians often have four.

Not quite half a page...

+1
Pedestrians always have priority on the road as there's no right to run one over.

[Bmblbzzz]

The OP does remind me of an 'incident' that occurred some time ago.

I was working in Japan and the Japanese obey the red/green man with absolutism. (I on the other hand am British...)
So I was waiting at the side of the road with the crowd when I spotted a gap in the traffic and decided to go for it. As I stepped off the pavement - so did everyone else (because obviously nobody would cross if the light was against them.)
The ensuing confusion and the look of bewilderment on the drivers face was a thing to behold. It was as if the laws of physics had suddenly stopped working!

That's wonderful! Made me laugh!

[Bmblbzzz]

As to the topic, I think it's not quite right: people do complain about pedestrians crossing on red. They – they being drivers in this case – don't do it that much because usually pedestrians don't hold the drivers up, but when drivers have to brake to avoid them, they do complain. At least to their passengers or whoever is around to hear. They don't tend to make a theme of it much.

[pwa]

It is a convention on UK streets that road traffic (bicycles, horses, cars, lorries, motorcycles) obey road lights. Pedestrians are not required to wait for lights. After all, pedestrians can cross elsewhere on the road, not just where there are lights. There are places (Switzerland?) where pedestrians are expected to cross at designated crossings and wait for lights to change.

[PRL]

It is a convention on UK streets that road traffic (bicycles, horses, cars, lorries, motorcycles) obey road lights. Pedestrians are not required to wait for lights.

The point is that the convention could equally logically have distinguished between motor-power/ human-power as between effectively wheeled/ not-wheeled. An arbitrary convention can be argued against but it is unwise to ignore it.

[kwackers]

As to the topic, I think it's not quite right: people do complain about pedestrians crossing on red. They – they being drivers in this case – don't do it that much because usually pedestrians don't hold the drivers up, but when drivers have to brake to avoid them, they do complain. At least to their passengers or whoever is around to hear. They don't tend to make a theme of it much.

They also complain about pedestrians crossing side roads despite rule 170 and often make a point of using the horn to show their displeasure and they're quite happy to leave pedestrians 'marooned' in the middle of the road should their lights go green whilst pedestrians are in the middle of crossing.

In fact there's one fairly simple theme to most motorists whining, that something got in their way and made them stop or slow down a bit.
IME, pedestrians have it far worse than cyclists. Motorists begrudgingly allow cyclists to use the roads but pedestrians are given very little leeway.