Every breath we take: the lifelong impact of air pollution

Psamathe
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Re: Every breath we take: the lifelong impact of air pollution

Postby Psamathe » 24 Oct 2017, 11:57am

Wanlock Dod wrote:
Psamathe wrote:Is the Govrnment spending our money wisely in addressing the air pollution scandal?

I'm quite sure that there are various parties that feel spending public money in maintaining the status quo at least until we get the chance to repeal all of those inconvenient and environmentally damaging EU directives about pollution and the environment is good value indeed.
Can you really imagine the UK doing something for the benefits to society rather than corporate profits? Improved air quality means better public health, which means less chance to sell health care products and services.

I agree but wont go further as I'd be taking the thread rather off-topic, particularly when there are other threads already covering where my agreement would be going.

Ian

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al_yrpal
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Re: Every breath we take: the lifelong impact of air pollution

Postby al_yrpal » 25 Oct 2017, 9:00am

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... are_btn_tw

Even the Grauniard !

...and the extra pollution likely to be caused by the proposed expansion of Heathrow doesnt beàr thinking about. Gatwick is the better choice other than no expansion whatsoever which is the best choice.

Al
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squeaker
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Re: Every breath we take: the lifelong impact of air pollution

Postby squeaker » 25 Oct 2017, 10:51am

Mark R wrote:Do you think a particulate filter fitted to a DI petrol would be likely to exhibit the same problems which affect diesel DPFs?
Only in the form of deliberate removal / failure to replace when faulty.
"42"

Ruadh495
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Re: Every breath we take: the lifelong impact of air pollution

Postby Ruadh495 » 25 Oct 2017, 12:43pm

If you really want to experience how far we've come, get a whiff of a 70's (or earlier) carbureted petrol engine (like the Volkswagen Camper that passed me last night). Now that is a stink of partially combusted hydrocarbons. Not suggesting banning classic cars, there's not enough of them left to make a real difference, but it's hard to imagine what life must have been like when nearly every car ponged like that. Not to mention the lead (which most engines didn't need anyway). No wonder diesels became popular and cycling became unpopular.

That Camper was the only vehicle which passed last night with a noticeable exhaust smell. There were a couple of VAG minicabs, but I didn't notice their exhaust. One diesel vehicle was emitting visible smoke whilst idling, but it was on the other side of the road so I couldn't smell it. As usual this was a public bus.

pga
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Re: Every breath we take: the lifelong impact of air pollution

Postby pga » 25 Oct 2017, 7:38pm

There are still people buying diesel cars, even fellow cyclists. We have a long way to go. Government at national and local level is scared still of motorists and, worse still, think that the economy needs the continual use of motor vehicles to prosper.
In spite of claims that walking and cycling and then public transport should be at the top of land use/transport planning the opposite is the reality with driving at the top and walking and cycling treated as after thoughts on the margins.

There are a lot a good pieces on air pollution in the Guardian but very few in the tabloids I read at cafe stops. A great pity is that Brexit is dominating the media. It is a slow progress as cigarettes and drink driving showed.

pwa
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Re: Every breath we take: the lifelong impact of air pollution

Postby pwa » 26 Oct 2017, 11:52am

I suspect that most people have air pollution somewhere in a middling position on their list of priorities, somewhere below paying the mortgage and getting the kids a new school uniform. They might like the idea of cleaner air (who wouldn't?) but if that means taking longer to get to work, paying thousands extra for a hybrid car, or whatever, it must wait. That is the reality for many families. The affluent have more choice.

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Re: Every breath we take: the lifelong impact of air pollution

Postby Mark R » 30 Oct 2017, 11:21am

The media seem to have belatedly noticed that NOx emissions are not the only problem with the diesel engine

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41761864

reohn2
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Re: Every breath we take: the lifelong impact of air pollution

Postby reohn2 » 31 Oct 2017, 10:13am

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thirdcrank
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Re: Every breath we take: the lifelong impact of air pollution

Postby thirdcrank » 31 Oct 2017, 10:44am

In 2009 it became compulsory for new diesels to have a particulate filter (DPF.) While these have probably improved since then as the technology has developed, they can still be troublesome. When they are working properly, as the name suggests they filter out some of the soot from the exhaust and the more effective they are, the more that soot tends to clog them so they are made to be self-cleaning. The idea is that the heat of the engine burns off the collected gunge and if the vehicle does a lot of short journeys and the DPF does not get hot enough to do that, it is burned off with fuel oil or a special fluid. Anyway, there comes a point where the DPF needs replacement which is not cheap. It's now being suggested that faulty DPF's are being removed and not replaced. This is an offence and the DPF is part of the MOT but the absence of the DPF may not be detected by the current MOT test.

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Re: Every breath we take: the lifelong impact of air pollution

Postby Bonefishblues » 31 Oct 2017, 11:03am

Its absence should be readily seen by an MOT tester. If it is in situ but "gutted" ie the components taken out then that's much more difficult to detect.

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Re: Every breath we take: the lifelong impact of air pollution

Postby SA_SA_SA » 31 Oct 2017, 11:06am

NB the next generation of fuel injected petrol engines* will need particulate filters....

(One advantage of a petrol engine is the exhaust is hot enough to not need the recommended periodic long journeys of a diesel DPF)

*The petrol equivalent of common rail diesels:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline_direct_injection#Emissions
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thirdcrank
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Re: Every breath we take: the lifelong impact of air pollution

Postby thirdcrank » 31 Oct 2017, 11:16am

I should have added that I have no way of knowing if this is a genuine concern or just another shock horror tale.

Psamathe
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Re: Every breath we take: the lifelong impact of air pollution

Postby Psamathe » 31 Oct 2017, 11:25am

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/air-pollution-uk-worst-places-towns-cities-london-too-dangerous-to-breath-un-who-report-a8028566.html wrote:Air in 44 UK cities and towns too dangerous to breathe, UN pollution report finds

Millions of people living in dozens of British cities are inhaling air considered too dangerous to breathe by the World Health Organisation, a report has shown.


Although also acknowledged in the report
The authors acknowledged that European Union air quality guidelines were far less stringent than those of the WHO, with an upper safety limit for PM2.5s of 25 micrograms per cubic metre.


Ian

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Wanlock Dod
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Re: Every breath we take: the lifelong impact of air pollution

Postby Wanlock Dod » 31 Oct 2017, 2:03pm

thirdcrank wrote:I should have added that I have no way of knowing if this is a genuine concern or just another shock horror tale.

When I reflect on all the various culprits that have been identified over the last couple of years as the real cause behind the air pollution problems that we have in pretty much any urban area I can't help but feel that whatever is being put forward currently as the real source of the problem probably isn't going to solve things because ultimately the problem is probably more about too many people choosing to drive in town centres than it is about how or what they drive.
The current interest in diesel as the sauce of all evil is, in my view, aimed at least as much at selling more cars into a market that is otherwise just about saturated. People don't need any more cars, but they might be persuaded into buying one that runs on an alternative fuel, and that will work out much more lucrative for the motor industry than if people were to hang on to their diesel cars and use busses and bikes a bit more. There might even be some modest gains from an air pollution perspective, but I'm sure we will be in a rather similar situation in a decades time still looking for some kind of fix for the traffic problems that we have in our town centres.

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Re: Every breath we take: the lifelong impact of air pollution

Postby reohn2 » 31 Oct 2017, 2:55pm

Wanlock Dod wrote:
thirdcrank wrote:I should have added that I have no way of knowing if this is a genuine concern or just another shock horror tale.

When I reflect on all the various culprits that have been identified over the last couple of years as the real cause behind the air pollution problems that we have in pretty much any urban area I can't help but feel that whatever is being put forward currently as the real source of the problem probably isn't going to solve things because ultimately the problem is probably more about too many people choosing to drive in town centres than it is about how or what they drive.

Agreed,its the sheer number of ice powered vehicles in towns and cities that'sthe problem.
The current interest in diesel as the sauce of all evil is, in my view, aimed at least as much at selling more cars into a market that is otherwise just about saturated. People don't need any more cars, but they might be persuaded into buying one that runs on an alternative fuel, and that will work out much more lucrative for the motor industry than if people were to hang on to their diesel cars and use busses and bikes a bit more. There might even be some modest gains from an air pollution perspective, but I'm sure we will be in a rather similar situation in a decades time still looking for some kind of fix for the traffic problems that we have in our town centres.

I again agree consumerism relies on continual consuming and at higher and more profit making,car sales is a large part ofmthat system,more cars more roads more roads more cars.At some poimt it has to stop but by then we'll have all either choked and croaked or be such a burden on the NHS it will collapse unde rthe strain.
There is of course another way(dare I say road) to do this movement of people but the profit margins are much less :roll:
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