Every breath we take: the lifelong impact of air pollution

Psamathe
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Re: Every breath we take: the lifelong impact of air pollution

Postby Psamathe » 31 Oct 2017, 3:01pm

reohn2 wrote:...its the sheer number of ice powered vehicles in towns and cities that'sthe problem.....

I wonder how much is also the "type" of vehicle (as in hatch back, SMART car, SUV, Range Rover). My little hatch back does over twice the mpg than the Range Rover a work colleague used to drive so I'd assume that for each mile they drove they'd be chucking out significantly more pollution than each mile I drive (given comparable fuel/vehicle age/etc.). So 10 petrol Range Rovers probably a lot worse than 12 petrol Minis?

Ian

reohn2
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Re: Every breath we take: the lifelong impact of air pollution

Postby reohn2 » 31 Oct 2017, 3:10pm

Psamathe wrote:
reohn2 wrote:...its the sheer number of ice powered vehicles in towns and cities that'sthe problem.....

I wonder how much is also the "type" of vehicle (as in hatch back, SMART car, SUV, Range Rover). My little hatch back does over twice the mpg than the Range Rover a work colleague used to drive so I'd assume that for each mile they drove they'd be chucking out significantly more pollution than each mile I drive (given comparable fuel/vehicle age/etc.). So 10 petrol Range Rovers probably a lot worse than 12 petrol Minis?

Ian

I agree though modern high powered motorcycles are gas guzzlers too AIUI,IMO the whole problem needs to be looked at across the board,taken out of the hands of politrickians and into the hands of health/environmental bodies.
My youngest daughter has an OverFinch Land Rover Discovery 3.0l turbo diesel,I driven it a couple of times and the mpg read out on the dash is alarming high.They're high earners so money doesnt come into the equation,but banning those types of vehicle from towns and cities would be a start.
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Psamathe
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Re: Every breath we take: the lifelong impact of air pollution

Postby Psamathe » 31 Oct 2017, 3:16pm

reohn2 wrote:
Psamathe wrote:
reohn2 wrote:...its the sheer number of ice powered vehicles in towns and cities that'sthe problem.....

I wonder how much is also the "type" of vehicle (as in hatch back, SMART car, SUV, Range Rover). My little hatch back does over twice the mpg than the Range Rover a work colleague used to drive so I'd assume that for each mile they drove they'd be chucking out significantly more pollution than each mile I drive (given comparable fuel/vehicle age/etc.). So 10 petrol Range Rovers probably a lot worse than 12 petrol Minis?

Ian

I agree though modern high powered motorcycles are gas guzzlers too AIUI,IMOit needs to be looked at across the board.
My youngest daughter has an OverFinch Land Rover Discovery 3.0l turbo diesel,I driven it a couple of times and the mpg read out on the dash is alarming high.They're a high earners so money doesnt come into the equation,but banning those types of vehicle from towns and cities would be a start.

Or do we raise (again) the question of moving VED to be additional tax on fuel. At least then the higher consumers would be paying greater contributions and (some) might be encouraged to drive more economical vehicles. Same could be achieved by very heavy weighting of VED to the higher polluting (incl consumption) vehicles but I can't see governments doing enough in that regard (a few rich bankers would start "UK closed for business" and threaten to emigrate ... and government seems to cave-in after a few seconds under such pressure).

Ian

Ruadh495
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Re: Every breath we take: the lifelong impact of air pollution

Postby Ruadh495 » 31 Oct 2017, 3:54pm

VED on fuel would be best. That way there's two options: either buy a more fuel efficient car or use the current car less. Anyone know why government have never done this? I think it might be to do with inflation figures; price of fuel counts but VED doesn't or something.

VED on fuel might encourage diesels though. They tend to use less, even now. Could have a higher rate though.

reohn2
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Re: Every breath we take: the lifelong impact of air pollution

Postby reohn2 » 31 Oct 2017, 4:49pm

I don't think moving VED to fuel would affect the high earners much TBH though would be more fair across the board.
If we as a society are interested in reducing pollution in towns and cities it'll need much more radical policies than monetary cost that'll only affect those who can't afford it.
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Wanlock Dod
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Re: Every breath we take: the lifelong impact of air pollution

Postby Wanlock Dod » 31 Oct 2017, 5:15pm

reohn2 wrote:...There is of course another way(dare I say road) to do this movement of people but the profit margins are much less :roll:

Whilst the profit margins are less for some alternative courses of action the benefits to society can be quite considerable. However, the advantages to society in terms of reduced healthcare costs could alternatively be viewed as reduced profits for the healthcare industry, and as such might be viewed as every bit as undesirable as reduced car sales.

reohn2
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Re: Every breath we take: the lifelong impact of air pollution

Postby reohn2 » 31 Oct 2017, 7:02pm

Wanlock Dod wrote:
reohn2 wrote:...There is of course another way(dare I say road) to do this movement of people but the profit margins are much less :roll:

Whilst the profit margins are less for some alternative courses of action the benefits to society can be quite considerable. However, the advantages to society in terms of reduced healthcare costs could alternatively be viewed as reduced profits for the healthcare industry, and as such might be viewed as every bit as undesirable as reduced car sales.

:wink:
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Bonefishblues
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Re: Every breath we take: the lifelong impact of air pollution

Postby Bonefishblues » 2 Nov 2017, 12:36pm

Anyone want to pop round?

https://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthread.php?t=274546

ETA
He's a bit of a fibber, too.

Mark R
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Re: Every breath we take: the lifelong impact of air pollution

Postby Mark R » 11 Apr 2018, 10:39am

Anyone still believe the industry propaganda that the latest diesels with AdBlue injection are "clean"?

You should watch this:

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/dispatches/on-demand/67343-001

It's an expose on the widespread disabling of HGV emission controls in the UK.

Pretty shocking altogether IMO. Exactly the same thing will happen with the latest EURO6 diesel cars. Begs the question- why continue to allow them into low emission zones?

Psamathe
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Re: Every breath we take: the lifelong impact of air pollution

Postby Psamathe » 17 May 2018, 1:04pm

At last UK (and several other countries) are being taken to court for failing to tackle illegal levels of air pollution (as is taken to European Court of Justice by the European Commission rather than some UK pressure group in UK courts).

Now wait for the rabid supporters of brexit to start up about the the ECJ and UK being governed by foreign laws, etc., etc. - completely missing the real point that the UK Government and Uk courts have failed to protect UK citizens so it has fallen to the EU bodies to protect UK citizens (after Westminster has not bothered).

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/may/17/uk-taken-to-europes-highest-court-over-air-pollution wrote:UK taken to Europe's highest court over air pollution
European court of justice can impose multimillion euro fines if the UK and five other countries do not address the problem
...
“We have waited a long time and we cannot possibly wait any longer,” said Karmenu Vella, European commissioner for environment. “We have said that this commission is one that protects. Our decision follows through on that claim. It is my conviction that today’s decision will lead to improvements for citizens on a much quicker timescale.”


Ian

pwa
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Re: Every breath we take: the lifelong impact of air pollution

Postby pwa » 18 May 2018, 8:17am

Psamathe wrote:At last UK (and several other countries) are being taken to court for failing to tackle illegal levels of air pollution (as is taken to European Court of Justice by the European Commission rather than some UK pressure group in UK courts).

Now wait for the rabid supporters of brexit to start up about the the ECJ and UK being governed by foreign laws, etc., etc. - completely missing the real point that the UK Government and Uk courts have failed to protect UK citizens so it has fallen to the EU bodies to protect UK citizens (after Westminster has not bothered).

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/may/17/uk-taken-to-europes-highest-court-over-air-pollution wrote:UK taken to Europe's highest court over air pollution
European court of justice can impose multimillion euro fines if the UK and five other countries do not address the problem
...
“We have waited a long time and we cannot possibly wait any longer,” said Karmenu Vella, European commissioner for environment. “We have said that this commission is one that protects. Our decision follows through on that claim. It is my conviction that today’s decision will lead to improvements for citizens on a much quicker timescale.”


Ian

Did you notice which other countries were named? France, Germany. The big economic powers. And I bet some of those not named are only in the clear because they don't measure properly.

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RickH
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Re: Every breath we take: the lifelong impact of air pollution

Postby RickH » 8 Jul 2018, 6:35pm

A recently published study in the Lancet (link) is suggesting there is also a significant link between PM2.5 particulate levels & diabetes, on top of everything else.

pwa
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Re: Every breath we take: the lifelong impact of air pollution

Postby pwa » 8 Jul 2018, 6:44pm

RickH wrote:A recently published study in the Lancet (link) is suggesting there is also a significant link between PM2.5 particulate levels & diabetes, on top of everything else.

If I lived where you do I think particulates might be on my mind at the moment. Is that fire still going?

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RickH
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Re: Every breath we take: the lifelong impact of air pollution

Postby RickH » 8 Jul 2018, 7:07pm

pwa wrote:If I lived where you do I think particulates might be on my mind at the moment. Is that fire still going?

I hope the fire won't last long enough to be a long term health problem! :shock:

On the Horwich side of the hill there has been very little to see. The smoke has mostly been blowing in other directions - I was glad I wasn't a Chorley resident for the first week. There's not much smoke now, it seems to be just a bit of smouldering at least for now, & I'm not sure where it is blowing to at the moment.

We've been having clear starry nights throughout & can see Snowdonia today! :D

reohn2
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Re: Every breath we take: the lifelong impact of air pollution

Postby reohn2 » 8 Jul 2018, 7:38pm

pwa wrote:
RickH wrote:A recently published study in the Lancet (link) is suggesting there is also a significant link between PM2.5 particulate levels & diabetes, on top of everything else.

If I lived where you do I think particulates might be on my mind at the moment. Is that fire still going?

The moors fires are a once every few years occurrence and once every 10or20 years or so on the scale we're seeing ATM.
Whereas pollution from ICE powered vehicles are a 24/7 problem in most if not all our towns and cities,that pollution can be almost stopped dead by some simple measures that a government with the spherics to take action on such an important issue should take.
Presently that action is absent,in the same way enough action when the moors fires were first lit could've restricted them to much smaller areas than at present..
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