Every breath we take: the lifelong impact of air pollution

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squeaker
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Re: Every breath we take: the lifelong impact of air pollution

Postby squeaker » 23 May 2020, 6:33pm

Interesting interview from one of the UK's leading researchers.
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Mark R
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Re: Every breath we take: the lifelong impact of air pollution

Postby Mark R » 28 Jun 2020, 10:44am

Another interesting interview from another of the leading researchers:

Most people probably don't realise that domestic wood burning is now the biggest single source of pm2.5 pollution in the UK....an activity only carried out by a small percentage of residents....environmental justice anyone?


https://youtu.be/ijSzWxet49o

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Re: Every breath we take: the lifelong impact of air pollution

Postby Vorpal » 28 Jun 2020, 12:30pm

Mark R wrote:Another interesting interview from another of the leading researchers:

Most people probably don't realise that domestic wood burning is now the biggest single source of pm2.5 pollution in the UK....an activity only carried out by a small percentage of residents....environmental justice anyone?


https://youtu.be/ijSzWxet49o

That's not quite correct... domestic combustion is the biggest source, and most of that is from wood burning. But they are not actually able to breakdown how much is wood burning, how much is other solid fuels, how much is liquid fuels, barbecues / cooking, bonfires, etc. They determine it mainly by clues, such as time of day, emissions of precursor gases (NOx, sulpher dioxide, etc.) and others. Also, that is based upon monitoring mostly in cities. The balance is different in rural areas, but less monitoring has been done in rural areas.

The breakdown of it is determined is here https://uk-air.defra.gov.uk/assets/docu ... the_UK.pdf

The report also indicates that a number of sources of PM 2.5 are not included.

That's not to suggest that something shouldn't be done about it. It's mainly the sake of accuracy.
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Re: Every breath we take: the lifelong impact of air pollution

Postby Graham » 28 Jun 2020, 1:51pm

I getting rather perplexed by the huge bonfires used by the Conservation groups that I work for.

We clear tons of fresh cut vegetation and burn it.

That is the traditional way of getting rid of the "arisings". As done by official bodies : County Councils : WIldlife Trusts : et al

I'm getting rather uncomfortable about this . . . . . And then there is my woodburner . . . . . - now moving towards decommisioning . . . gradually burning my remaining stock of wood. I'm not bringing any more to the house. :oops:

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Re: Every breath we take: the lifelong impact of air pollution

Postby reohn2 » 28 Jun 2020, 2:12pm

Graham
The vegitation could rotted down but it would need carting of to a safe place which could be a less environmentally friendly process.
What will you use to heat your home if you stop using the wood burner?
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Re: Every breath we take: the lifelong impact of air pollution

Postby Mark R » 28 Jun 2020, 7:00pm

Vorpal wrote:
Mark R wrote:Another interesting interview from another of the leading researchers:

Most people probably don't realise that domestic wood burning is now the biggest single source of pm2.5 pollution in the UK....an activity only carried out by a small percentage of residents....environmental justice anyone?


https://youtu.be/ijSzWxet49o

That's not quite correct... domestic combustion is the biggest source, and most of that is from wood burning. But they are not actually able to breakdown how much is wood burning, how much is other solid fuels, how much is liquid fuels, barbecues / cooking, bonfires, etc. They determine it mainly by clues, such as time of day, emissions of precursor gases (NOx, sulpher dioxide, etc.) and others. Also, that is based upon monitoring mostly in cities. The balance is different in rural areas, but less monitoring has been done in rural areas.

The breakdown of it is determined is here https://uk-air.defra.gov.uk/assets/docu ... the_UK.pdf

The report also indicates that a number of sources of PM 2.5 are not included.

That's not to suggest that something shouldn't be done about it. It's mainly the sake of accuracy.


I was was quoting Dr Fuller in the podcast; it's 47mins in, he actually says that domestic wood burning is now the single largest source of PM pollution in the UK (although he doesn't say whether indoor or outdoor)

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Re: Every breath we take: the lifelong impact of air pollution

Postby Graham » 28 Jun 2020, 9:49pm

If I stop the wood-burning, my gas CH consumption will likely rise a bit.

fossil fuel CO2 issue Versus wood-burner air quality issue

Gas Use ( CH & cooking ) for the 6months over winter was around 860 kWh

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Re: Every breath we take: the lifelong impact of air pollution

Postby Jon Lucas » 30 Jun 2020, 6:32am

reohn2 wrote:Graham
The vegitation could rotted down but it would need carting of to a safe place which could be a less environmentally friendly process.
What will you use to heat your home if you stop using the wood burner?


"A safe place"? Vegetation can be just left to decompose at the side of wherever cutting is taking place, and will be of far more benefit to wildlife.

I've never understood the desire to have bonfires. As a gardener, I would always aim to compost any waste vegetation, to recycle fertility back to the soil.

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Re: Every breath we take: the lifelong impact of air pollution

Postby pwa » 30 Jun 2020, 6:58am

Jon Lucas wrote:
reohn2 wrote:Graham
The vegitation could rotted down but it would need carting of to a safe place which could be a less environmentally friendly process.
What will you use to heat your home if you stop using the wood burner?


"A safe place"? Vegetation can be just left to decompose at the side of wherever cutting is taking place, and will be of far more benefit to wildlife.

I've never understood the desire to have bonfires. As a gardener, I would always aim to compost any waste vegetation, to recycle fertility back to the soil.

Burning is a way of reducing the bulk of cuttings if you have more than can be tucked away. It depends how much space you have to play with. The instances where it is needed are a minority though. The more usual reason for having the bonfire is to give the volunteers a location to get warm, to socialise and to bake their potatoes. It isn't something you would do near houses, of course, so the people adversely affected by any pollution will be the people around the bonfire. If it were me, I love a bonfire and I'd take the risk. I grew up smelling of wood smoke.

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Re: Every breath we take: the lifelong impact of air pollution

Postby Mark R » 30 Jun 2020, 7:27am

pwa wrote:
Jon Lucas wrote:
reohn2 wrote:Graham
The vegitation could rotted down but it would need carting of to a safe place which could be a less environmentally friendly process.
What will you use to heat your home if you stop using the wood burner?


"A safe place"? Vegetation can be just left to decompose at the side of wherever cutting is taking place, and will be of far more benefit to wildlife.

I've never understood the desire to have bonfires. As a gardener, I would always aim to compost any waste vegetation, to recycle fertility back to the soil.

Burning is a way of reducing the bulk of cuttings if you have more than can be tucked away. It depends how much space you have to play with. The instances where it is needed are a minority though. The more usual reason for having the bonfire is to give the volunteers a location to get warm, to socialise and to bake their potatoes. It isn't something you would do near houses, of course, so the people adversely affected by any pollution will be the people around the bonfire. If it were me,
I love a bonfire
and I'd take the risk. I grew up smelling of wood smoke.



Really? What is lovable about them? If you had said "I love a camp fire" I could understand. but love for bonfires??.

What is so pleasing about a heap of random green biomass sending a massive plume of carcinogenic, particulate laden smoke into the air?

BTW the composition of bonfire smoke is broadly similar to tobacco smoke. If it is no longer acceptable to force others to breath that, why does society still have this massive blind spot when it comes to stinky bonfires?

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Re: Every breath we take: the lifelong impact of air pollution

Postby pwa » 30 Jun 2020, 7:42am

Mark R wrote:
Really? What is lovable about them? If you had said "I love a camp fire" I could understand. but love for bonfires??.

What is so pleasing about a heap of random green biomass sending a massive plume of carcinogenic, particulate laden smoke into the air?

BTW the composition of bonfire smoke is broadly similar to tobacco smoke. If it is no longer acceptable to force others to breath that, why does society still have this massive blind spot when it comes to stinky bonfires?

I still love them. I have done since I was a child. Camp fire or bonfire. Same thing. When we used to visit my parents in Ireland my Dad burned hedge cuttings on a bonfire / camp fire in the little bit of woodland they had, and we sat with my kids around the fire, baking potatoes and warming ourselves. Yes, we could have just walked up to the house and cooked the potatoes in the electric oven and warmed ourselves with the invisible underfloor heating, and not had the lovely memories. We knew about smoke inhalation not being a great idea so we instilled in the kids the idea of stepping away when the wind blows smoke in your direction, but frankly life ends in death anyway and you take some risks because the rewards merit it. Nobody needs to walk to the top of a mountain, and hill walking is a risky activity that kills people, but we do it because we love it. The same applies to sitting around a fire in the countryside. If you don't get anything out of it I suggest that you don't do it. I'm not talking about a fire in a built-up area that affects neighbours, which is obviously anti-social. I am talking only about a fire in the countryside that is well away from people not enjoying it.

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Re: Every breath we take: the lifelong impact of air pollution

Postby reohn2 » 30 Jun 2020, 8:50am

Jon Lucas wrote:
reohn2 wrote:Graham
The vegitation could rotted down but it would need carting of to a safe place which could be a less environmentally friendly process.
What will you use to heat your home if you stop using the wood burner?


"A safe place"? Vegetation can be just left to decompose at the side of wherever cutting is taking place, and will be of far more benefit to wildlife.

I've never understood the desire to have bonfires. As a gardener, I would always aim to compost any waste vegetation, to recycle fertility back to the soil.

It depends how much vegitation you have,if it needs burning to reduce it I suspect there's quite a lot.Composting is the best solution I agree but I believe a large heap can spon com hence my mention of a safe place.
If it consists mostly of tree cuttings,branches etc it's probably best chipped and left at the base of the trees being pruned or even sold,but again it depends a lot on location and whether there's easy access to a chipper.
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Re: Every breath we take: the lifelong impact of air pollution

Postby Mark R » 1 Jul 2020, 8:04am

So did anyone listen to the podcast?

https://fullycharged.show/podcasts/podcast-67/

One interesting topic was why, during the lockdown, PM pollution (which is currently the most toxic of the major air pollutants) did not fall as expected; in fact it spiked to dangerous levels.

https://airqualitynews.com/2020/05/04/air-quality-making-headlines-during-the-coronavirus-lockdown/

The main reasons for this:

1, Agricultural muck spreading
2, Industrial pollution from Northern Europe
3, Garden waste burning

Given the fact that PM pollution levels in London for example, depend largely on the prevailing wind direction bringing in pollution from far afield, we really should get away from this idea that bonfires are not harming anyone as long as they are:
"(not) in a built-up area that affects neighbours".

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Re: Every breath we take: the lifelong impact of air pollution

Postby Jon Lucas » 3 Jul 2020, 3:11pm

Mark R wrote:So did anyone listen to the podcast?

https://fullycharged.show/podcasts/podcast-67/

One interesting topic was why, during the lockdown, PM pollution (which is currently the most toxic of the major air pollutants) did not fall as expected; in fact it spiked to dangerous levels.

https://airqualitynews.com/2020/05/04/air-quality-making-headlines-during-the-coronavirus-lockdown/

The main reasons for this:

1, Agricultural muck spreading
2, Industrial pollution from Northern Europe
3, Garden waste burning

Given the fact that PM pollution levels in London for example, depend largely on the prevailing wind direction bringing in pollution from far afield, we really should get away from this idea that bonfires are not harming anyone as long as they are:
"(not) in a built-up area that affects neighbours".


A fourth is barbecues. Apparently, instead of going to mass gatherings such as sporting events, people have now been celebrating these at home by holding barbecues, or just having a barbecue when there were no events to celebrate, and it is thought the pollution just from these has had a significant effect.