Passing clearance - motion at AGM

Steady rider
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Re: Passing clearance - motion at AGM

Postby Steady rider » 17 Apr 2016, 5:24pm

The passing law should be clear to drivers, whereas dangerous or careless to some degree may depend on a point of view. Not providing the distances prescribed in law would indicate insufficient care in passing.

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honesty
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Re: Passing clearance - motion at AGM

Postby honesty » 17 Apr 2016, 5:36pm

al_yrpal wrote:I see, its useless to make laws about things because they don't change behavior ! Gee, I never thought of that. Guess I won't worry again about driving back from the pub after 4 pints and a whisky chaser.

Al

No need to be snippy. There are multiple cases to show where a law is not enforced the law is worthless. As there is no cost effective and simple way to enforce a passing distance law it will not be enforced. Ergo it will be worthless.

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Tigerbiten
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Re: Passing clearance - motion at AGM

Postby Tigerbiten » 17 Apr 2016, 5:38pm

honesty wrote:Do one and the other becomes pointless as the already covered by careless driving. In the same way that mobile phone use was already actually covered by then current laws and you didn't need a new one, just a restatement of the careless driving definition.

Your chance of getting a careless/dangerous driving conviction is as likely as wining the lottery.
Read -> http://beyondthekerb.org.uk/2015/03/20/erasure/

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al_yrpal
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Re: Passing clearance - motion at AGM

Postby al_yrpal » 17 Apr 2016, 5:41pm

honesty wrote:
al_yrpal wrote:I see, its useless to make laws about things because they don't change behavior ! Gee, I never thought of that. Guess I won't worry again about driving back from the pub after 4 pints and a whisky chaser.

Al

No need to be snippy. There are multiple cases to show where a law is not enforced the law is worthless. As there is no cost effective and simple way to enforce a passing distance law it will not be enforced. Ergo it will be worthless.


Ergo, most laws are useless then?… .. In future we can all do exactly what we like then. :lol:

Al
Touring on a bicycle is a great way to explore and appreciate the countryside and towns you pass through. Make a difference...

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honesty
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Re: Passing clearance - motion at AGM

Postby honesty » 17 Apr 2016, 5:50pm

al_yrpal wrote:
honesty wrote:
al_yrpal wrote:I see, its useless to make laws about things because they don't change behavior ! Gee, I never thought of that. Guess I won't worry again about driving back from the pub after 4 pints and a whisky chaser.

Al

No need to be snippy. There are multiple cases to show where a law is not enforced the law is worthless. As there is no cost effective and simple way to enforce a passing distance law it will not be enforced. Ergo it will be worthless.


Ergo, most laws are useless then?… .. In future we can all do exactly what we like then. :lol:

Al


Most laws are enforced to some extent though. Not sure why you are not seeing the difference here...

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Re: Passing clearance - motion at AGM

Postby reohn2 » 17 Apr 2016, 6:18pm

The problem as I see it with the law and particularly motoring laws,is that it isn't being enforced because there's far too much wriggle room to get off with offences by slick lawyers,and a toothless judiciary,when and if they get to court .
The few police that are about know this and so only book/arrest/report solid gold winners that's when their morale isn't in their boots due to cut backs,the election of police commissioners dictating terms and continued politicisation of the police force,their pensions being eroded and the chance of being made redundant at the next round of cuts!
Meanwhile in this void of policing and jiggery pokery of the legal system the criminals are having a beano,if anyone's in any doubt about this take a look at the recent Volvo v cyclist incident in Nottingham where the driver walked out of court laughing at a toothless system which prevented him being prosecuted for deliberately running down a cyclist in broad daylight because he felt like it.
That's the state of affairs cyclists find themselves in,in 21st century UK :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

We(apparently) can't afford to catch criminals and punish them accordingly,so the whole of society suffers as a result,and more so the weakest members of our society.
Is this how the fifth richest country in the world treats it's most powerless members?
Damned right it is,and IMHO it'll get worse before it gets better. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
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Steady rider
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Re: Passing clearance - motion at AGM

Postby Steady rider » 17 Apr 2016, 7:12pm

To enforce a passing law what is required?
Speed zone less than 30 mph for example, photo's or video of vehicle passing a cyclist leaving less then 1m, number of vehicle, driver or registered keeper. Fine if driver is not disclosed in reply to fine issued or police request. All commercial vehicles to log driver details and time of use.
Fine and points related to passing clearance,

These passing laws already exist in a number of places, and they can be enforced. The police only have to photo the incident and pass on details to the fines department, unless they consider it an offence that warrants other measures. Assuming the police vehicle is behind, they could overtake, stop the vehicle, obtain details of the driver, wait and in most cases obtain details of the cyclist (recommended for vehicles passing very close).

Drivers options? pay fine, dispute case, possibly take to court case.
Possibly a simpler process than for careless or dangerous driving and easier to enforce.

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Re: Passing clearance - motion at AGM

Postby Bmblbzzz » 18 Apr 2016, 10:08am

I think the fear of backlash is exaggerated. Some form of social backlash is inevitable, because it exists all the time. We've seen it most obviously recently in response to the CSHs in London; and of course in the old shout "Get on the cycle path!" Its degree in response to a law is likely to be less, simply because a law is less tangible. The risk therefore is legal, and that is surely to be dealt with at the stage of framing a bill, debating it in parliament and lobbying; the kind of thing that CTC has become CUK for, isn't it?

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Re: Passing clearance - motion at AGM

Postby manybikes » 18 Apr 2016, 10:21am

Head above the parapet and ready to duck. I've been riding in Majorca this week and everyone,YES, everyone has given me plenty of room. This on wide and narrow roads, despite the occasional selfish or unthinking action by large groups of road gangs. So I think its a mindset amongst motorists that works if the incentive or sanction is powerful enough.
For the so called national cycling charity to object to the motion is disgraceful.

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Re: Passing clearance - motion at AGM

Postby Steady rider » 18 Apr 2016, 10:30am

+1

Elizabethsdad
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Re: Passing clearance - motion at AGM

Postby Elizabethsdad » 2 May 2016, 5:12pm

I have just signed this petition and would urge everyone on this forum to do the same.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/128190

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Re: Passing clearance - motion at AGM

Postby Psamathe » 5 May 2016, 12:23am

Elizabethsdad wrote:I have just signed this petition and would urge everyone on this forum to do the same.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/128190

I find it interesting that most of the Parliament petitions started about cycling issues get even a few hundred signatures if they are doing well. Yet this petition is now over 10,000 signatures - which seems to me a very strong indication that it is something cyclists support and want but WACU, claiming to represent cyclists and cycling, don't. Suggests to me somebody has lost touch with the cycling community.

Ian

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Re: Passing clearance - motion at AGM

Postby Bez » 5 May 2016, 7:28am

But let's not assume that because lots of people see a problem, are fed a purported solution, and support that purported solution, that it will actually fix the problem.

I don't like the fact that some people drive at 40-50mph along the road that my kids walk and cycle across to school and nursery, so if someone showed me a law which was a solu—oh wait

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Re: Passing clearance - motion at AGM

Postby Bmblbzzz » 5 May 2016, 11:07am

But how many of them would drive at 40-50 if speed limits had never been introduced? That's the relevant question in that situation.

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gaz
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Re: Passing clearance - motion at AGM

Postby gaz » 5 May 2016, 2:20pm

Indeed if we'd never got rid of the bloke walking in front of the horseless carriage with his red flag all would be well :wink: .

On a more serious note Department for Transport document "Update of Circular Roads 1/93", Setting local speed limits has guidelines for reducing speed from NSL on rural roads, it is a consultation document rather than policy.

General gist is that speed on rural roads can only be limited by design, e.g. the road layout. So a narrow, twisty, turny NSL road will generally achieve a lower actual driving speed than a wide straight one (remember people are paid to figure this stuff out :roll: )

The upshot is that if you set a speed limit far below the speed that the majority of traffic currently drives on any given road it will be ignored, e.g. if the limit's 60mph and the road layout determines that over 80% of motorists drive at 52mph then they might slow down to recognise a 50mph limit. Stick a 40mph or lower limit in place on the same road and it won't work, people drive according to their perception of the danger not the legal limits.
There'll be tarmac over, the white cliffs of Dover ...