meic wrote:But don't say that it must be something about the victim:
Not victim blaming but an acceptance that we are not powerless to influence things and that starts with understanding of what is happening, why and where.
I would not blame my daughter if she got raped walking through the middle of a gang of drunken yobs in a dark park but I would teach her to avoid such situations, just as I would teach my son to avoid such situations.
Failure to be streetwise can end up with them catching you, it is the harsh reality of Britain's streets.
For a long time, avoiding sexual assault has been advice to women to be street smart. The problem is that while being street smart, avoiding situations that may be troublesome, etc. will only help a little. And as long as that is the solution, victim blaming is all too easy.
The reality is that most sexual harrassment and sexual assaults are not the gang of yobs, or the creepy person following the victim home. They are someone who is known to the victim and often occur in circumstances where the person has, to some measure taken advantage of trust.
meic wrote: Don't say that men must protect women.
Not something that I am free to decide on, in my (clearly sexist) society my failure to do so would have me on a par with a murderer or peadophile. I actually couldnt live with myself either if I just walked away from that.
However I am talking about the serious crime level here not non-violent interactions.
Sorry if I wasn't clear. I don't mean that people should not act to protect one another. I mean that it's not just about men must protect women. We all need to look out for each other and especially for those who are more vulnerable, or more likely to be a target. The point is that it's not 'men must protect women', but look out for each other.
meic wrote: Don't say evidence is required when people relate their experiences:
I dont see how we should create a special case here, normal rules should continue to apply.
Twice friends have told me about sexual assaults from ex-partners, I listened and sympathised and was upset by it. However if I was to wish to exact some revenge on their behalf (in violation of guidance above) I would NEED evidence.
An investigation requires evidence. Empathy does not.
meic wrote:Don't say not all men do that.
I didnt say that when my friends related their experience because they knew not all men did that and they were specifying a particular man. However in other instances, like this debate there is an underlying accusation that men are doing this and I among others am a man, so that includes ME. So I feel quite obliged to point out that not all men do that, especially not this one. Just like I say "not all cyclists jump red lights".
Now if you have a good reason why I should stand there in silence, acquiescing to the implication, for the greater good, I am listening.
The victims of sexual harrassment or assault aren't stupid. They *know* that not all men do things like that.
If you really think that you are implicated when someone relates an experience, by all means, say 'I'm not ;ike that'. Otherwise, it diverts the conversation, as if the victim, relaying experience was trying to place blame. They aren't. But even if they are looking for a place to put blame, do you really think it helps to say, 'not all men are like that'? Your friends who related their experiences to you *obviously* knew that not all men are like that, or they wouldn't have trusted you enough to tell you their experiences.
meic wrote:
And don't say it's just 'bad men'
I did say that when my friends related their experiences, I dont understand why I shouldnt, though to be fair I generally prefer to say nothing as everything I say tends to be wrong in all situations..
It's different with an assault or violent crime than harrassment. A great deal of harrassment, especially the milder sort, catcalling and the like is done by people who simply have a different perception of acceptable behaviour, who don't understand how it feels to be on the receiving end. They aren't necessarily bad.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom