Edinburgh 20 MPH

Metal8
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Edinburgh 20 MPH

Postby Metal8 » 4 Jun 2016, 4:21am

If anything, are CTC/CyclingUK looking at the Edinburgh Council decision to make the city eventually 20mph starting this summer?
Any other cities thinking about it?
Other Scottish cities/towns are interested to see how it goes, could go country wide.

As both a driver and cyclist for 30 years, I am on the fence.

Thoughts?

Cheers folks

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Lance Dopestrong
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Re: Edinburgh 20 MPH

Postby Lance Dopestrong » 4 Jun 2016, 9:04am

I don't think the speed limit applies to people riding fences.
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Re: Edinburgh 20 MPH

Postby Pete Owens » 4 Jun 2016, 9:44am

Metal8 wrote:Any other cities thinking about it?

http://www.20splenty.org/20mph_places

LollyKat
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Re: Edinburgh 20 MPH

Postby LollyKat » 4 Jun 2016, 10:01am


I've just had a look at that link .
Already more than half of the largest 40 urban authorities in the UK have a policy of setting 20mph as the default for all their streets.

The complete list of places implementing a community-wide 20mph default with populations are :- ....


To my surprise I found Glasgow on the list. All I can say is that as a regular Glasgow cyclist this is news to me and I've not seen any sign of it, apart from in the occasional residential street.

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Heltor Chasca
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Edinburgh 20 MPH

Postby Heltor Chasca » 5 Jun 2016, 8:01am

Round here, and in my opinion, the introduction of 20mph zones is just another exorbitant waste of resources and something the police have no hope in Hades of monitoring.

For the likes of people like me who put the effort in to change down into second gear and abide by the law, it's just another reason to hate the drivers who ignore the signs and drive at whatever speed they wish. They won't ever get caught will they? Let's be honest.

Our entire village is a 20mph zone. All that has happened is that people who cut through have dropped their speed from 50 to 40. Is that progress?

On a bad day I wish they hadn't bothered. With a 30mph limit, at least I was a lot less stressed. We are up against it.

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Re: Edinburgh 20 MPH

Postby lowrider » 5 Jun 2016, 10:04am

All I can say is that as a regular Glasgow cyclist this is news to me and I've not seen any sign of it, apart from in the occasional residential street.

As far as I am aware this will mainly be applied to residential streets main and through routes will remain as present. In restricted residential streets speeds are usually lower in anycase without the new zones. In a lot of places like these speeds will be around 20mph anyway. As far as enforcement this will probably only be present should there be an incident where someone is hurt. I cant see there much happening otherwise unless there is a particular problem that has led to some complaint.

Metal8
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Re: Edinburgh 20 MPH

Postby Metal8 » 5 Jun 2016, 11:04pm

Lance Dopestrong wrote:I don't think the speed limit applies to people riding fences.


Tee hee, sore bum too! :D

Metal8
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Re: Edinburgh 20 MPH

Postby Metal8 » 5 Jun 2016, 11:09pm

Yes, they can't police the speed limit at the moment.
If anyone's familiar with Edinburgh, Holyrood park has a 20mph limit.
As a driver, I go down in gear and drive at the limit. I've had road rage incidents with people telling me I'm going too slowly!! Grrr...
One time it was a white van man, commercial vehicles aren't allowed to drive through the park anyway.
People don't give a !!!! really.

I can see the city becoming one big road rage capital and far from safer for cyclists as car drivers will get even more frustrated.

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Re: Edinburgh 20 MPH

Postby pwa » 7 Jun 2016, 9:55am

I'm in two minds about the 20mph stuff. It's a great idea for residential streets. No problems there. But I regularly drive along a wide main road in Port Talbot that is 20mph, presumably because twice a day it has a school crossing patrol. I can see the sense in that. But for the rest of the day it remains 20mph despite being exceptionally wide, and despite being a main road linking to a motorway junction. The road is probably five cars wide, maybe six, and low on hazards. I make the effort to slow down, but usually it seems like a pointless gesture to safety rather than a real, practical improvement. A variable speed limit might just be too costly. I don't know. Or maybe the 20mph zone could be narrowed down to either side of the school crossing patrol, with speed bumps to reinforce the message.

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Re: Edinburgh 20 MPH

Postby hufty » 7 Jun 2016, 6:40pm

A lot of areas in Calderdale (Sowerby Bridge, Hebden Bridge, Todmorden) are 20mph and it's basically ignored by the vast majority of car drivers, even Mrs Hufty. To avoid being a hypocrite I do sanctimoniously drive at 20 in a 20 zone - we all have a part to play in reducing the expectations of other drivers ;). Personally I think 25mph might have been more achievable and might have had better uptake but that's another discussion.
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Re: Edinburgh 20 MPH

Postby mjr » 7 Jun 2016, 7:56pm

20mph is vital if we want to stop killing so many walkers and cyclists. They should move speed cameras around to penalise the wannabe killers.
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irc
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Re: Edinburgh 20 MPH

Postby irc » 7 Jun 2016, 11:48pm

LollyKat wrote:To my surprise I found Glasgow on the list. All I can say is that as a regular Glasgow cyclist this is news to me and I've not seen any sign of it, apart from in the occasional residential street.


The entire city centre is a 20mph zone now I believe. Though inside the M8 I never had much of an issue with speeding drivers. I'm not aware of any enforcement either. A bit of an easy target.

http://www.glasgow.gov.uk/CHttpHandler. ... =30931&p=0

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Re: Edinburgh 20 MPH

Postby Bmblbzzz » 8 Jun 2016, 12:29am

Heltor Chasca wrote:Our entire village is a 20mph zone. All that has happened is that people who cut through have dropped their speed from 50 to 40. Is that progress?

Yes it is, but not enough of it.

The point of 20mph limits is not that they will immediately make everyone drive at 20, but that in time it will become the norm for built up areas. That will probably take at least ten years, maybe twenty, but if we don't start it will never happen. I was as sceptical as others here about enforcement but one of my neighbours tells me his colleague has been given a speeding fine at 28mph. Statistics from 20mph areas show only a very small reduction in average speeds, but again, that's not the point; it's about peak speeds. Certainly most people ignore it (at the moment) and those who are happy to drive at 40 or 50 in a town are going to ignore it more than most, but again, it makes them stand out more; harder for them to feel they are the norm and harder for the police to turn a blind eye. Harder for others to pretend it's not a problem either.

But what's the point of getting traffic to slow down anyway? Safety is the main reason usually given, particularly for children, but it's also about pollution of various forms: air pollution, particulates from brakes and tyres (reduced because of lower peak speeds), noise. And of course it's about taming the road: making it easier for people to cross because the gaps between cars now mean something in pedestrian terms; making the other side of the road more attainable; making non-traffic uses of streets more feasible. In other words, it's not just a speed limit, it's a little step towards making towns more liveable.

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Re: Edinburgh 20 MPH

Postby JimL » 8 Jun 2016, 9:23am

irc wrote:
LollyKat wrote:To my surprise I found Glasgow on the list. All I can say is that as a regular Glasgow cyclist this is news to me and I've not seen any sign of it, apart from in the occasional residential street.


The entire city centre is a 20mph zone now I believe. Though inside the M8 I never had much of an issue with speeding drivers. I'm not aware of any enforcement either. A bit of an easy target.

http://www.glasgow.gov.uk/CHttpHandler. ... =30931&p=0


As far as I am aware most of the residential 20mph speed limits are advisory only and the legal speed limit is 30mph. I raised an issue with speeding cars in a 20mph residential area and the council eventually produced some speed survey figures from a couple of years previous showing that the average speed in the area was 28mph( with some cars in excess of 40mph,frightening given the layout of the area ) and as this was less than the speed limit there was no problem. As usual when you interact with these people you quickly discern their real attitudes as compared to the spin.

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Re: Edinburgh 20 MPH

Postby pwa » 8 Jun 2016, 10:19am

I suppose there will always be people who habitually drive at 10mph+ above the limit, and all we can hope for there is some sort of education and detection / enforcement.

20mph seems to me to be a good default speed limit for residential streets. But on main roads I think it needs to be used more selectively. It should be a case by case thing.