Public Space Protection Order to prohibit cycling.

User avatar
gaz
Posts: 13784
Joined: 9 Mar 2007, 12:09pm
Location: Kent, car park of England

Public Space Protection Order to prohibit cycling.

Postby gaz » 17 Aug 2016, 8:59pm

Today, as I was on my usual commute I spotted a new sign.
DSCN0460.JPG
Public Space Protection Order

There was a consultation, clearly I missed the relevant notices or I'd have brought it up on here before.

The section of road highlighted is essentially a pedestrianised town centre, already subject to a TRO preventing motorised vehicles 10am-6pm and prohibiting cycling 24/7. Although one-way it sees frequent two way cycle traffic and within the prohibited times some of it probably is anti-social.

The Order can be found here.

It was already illegal to cycle on this road, enforceable by the police. Having had a look at the underlying legislation the main upshot is that the Council's own "authorised persons" can also now issue FPNs.

Policing cycling on the cheap, where next?
Hand wash only. Do not iron.

irc
Posts: 4585
Joined: 3 Dec 2008, 2:22pm
Location: glasgow

Re: Public Space Protection Order to prohibit cycling.

Postby irc » 17 Aug 2016, 10:51pm

gaz wrote:] the main upshot is that the Council's own "authorised persons" can also now issue FPNs.


Do the council people have any powers to require cyclists to stop?

User avatar
mjr
Posts: 14207
Joined: 20 Jun 2011, 7:06pm
Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
Contact:

Re: Public Space Protection Order to prohibit cycling.

Postby mjr » 18 Aug 2016, 1:42am

That doesn't seem lawful because "In relation to a highway that is the only or principal means of access to premises used for business or recreational purposes, a public spaces protection order may not restrict the public right of way over the highway during periods when the premises are normally used for those purposes" http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/201 ... hts-of-way

Could you get a local cycling group to ask various pointed questions about how cyclists were consulted and so on?

I wish this country took the same attitude to most countries and allowed responsible cycling in pedestrian zones.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.

User avatar
gaz
Posts: 13784
Joined: 9 Mar 2007, 12:09pm
Location: Kent, car park of England

Re: Public Space Protection Order to prohibit cycling.

Postby gaz » 18 Aug 2016, 9:11am

Good point, well made. It would appear to be a technicality over which a FPN might be challenged, with no guarantee of success. The existing TROs already mean there is "no cycling" access to the relevant premises. Arguably the PSPO does not restrict such access.

The only point I can see to creating the PSPO is the enforcement of "no cycling" by "authorised persons". I have little appetite to launch a fight against the legality of the order.
Hand wash only. Do not iron.

User avatar
mjr
Posts: 14207
Joined: 20 Jun 2011, 7:06pm
Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
Contact:

Re: Public Space Protection Order to prohibit cycling.

Postby mjr » 18 Aug 2016, 10:17am

I'd prefer to fight such an order on its undemocratic nature rather than the strict legality - unless push comes to shove, someone gets an FPN purely under a PSPO (so in an area not also covered by a TRO) and people are willing to fund that legal challenge.

Also, I don't think the existance of some other order allows a PSPO to do something specifically disallowed by the legislation. The TRO can restrict a highway but the PSPO cannot.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.

User avatar
gaz
Posts: 13784
Joined: 9 Mar 2007, 12:09pm
Location: Kent, car park of England

Re: Public Space Protection Order to prohibit cycling.

Postby gaz » 18 Aug 2016, 11:23am

mjr wrote:Could you get a local cycling group to ask various pointed questions about how cyclists were consulted and so on?

There was a consultation Oct/Nov 2015. How well promoted or wide reaching it was I do not know, I certainly didn't chance upon it myself.

What little I can discover of the consultation suggests that creating "better enforcement powers" was an official aim of enacting the PSPO. It's easy to imagine the reaction to local cycling groups campaigning against "better enforcement powers" for an existing "no cycling" policy.
Hand wash only. Do not iron.

jgurney
Posts: 530
Joined: 10 May 2009, 8:34am

Re: Public Space Protection Order to prohibit cycling.

Postby jgurney » 18 Aug 2016, 11:50am

gaz wrote:The section of road highlighted is essentially a pedestrianised town centre, already subject to a TRO preventing motorised vehicles 10am-6pm and prohibiting cycling 24/7.


So for 16hrs per day motor traffic is allowed but cycling is prohibited?

User avatar
mjr
Posts: 14207
Joined: 20 Jun 2011, 7:06pm
Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
Contact:

Re: Public Space Protection Order to prohibit cycling.

Postby mjr » 18 Aug 2016, 11:53am

gaz wrote:It's easy to imagine the reaction to local cycling groups campaigning against "better enforcement powers" for an existing "no cycling" policy.

It has to be done carefully, for sure, but local groups here have long campaigned against lifting the current "no cycling" orders as unreasonable (due to cycle routes and cycle parks inside the "ban" area), unenforceable (because the signs are incomplete and always have been, so anyone challenged can simply reply "oh, I entered from X" where X is an unsigned street, although they then must comply with instruction to dismount from a police officer) and discriminatory against disabled people who can't walk as easily as they can ride.

jgurney wrote:So for 16hrs per day motor traffic is allowed but cycling is prohibited?

Actually, I think that's fairly common in "pedestrian" zones. There seems to have been a set of cut-and-paste TRO clauses somewhere that didn't include a part-time cycling restriction option.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.

User avatar
gaz
Posts: 13784
Joined: 9 Mar 2007, 12:09pm
Location: Kent, car park of England

Re: Public Space Protection Order to prohibit cycling.

Postby gaz » 18 Aug 2016, 12:17pm

jgurney wrote:So for 16hrs per day motor traffic is allowed but cycling is prohibited?

Outside the PSPO area is a section where buses are allowed 24/7 and other motor vehicles are banned 10am-6pm. Again cycling is prohibited 24/7.

A wonderful bit of forward thinking by the local authority dating back to the late 80's/early 90's when the area was "pedestrianised".

mjr wrote:
gaz wrote:It's easy to imagine the reaction to local cycling groups campaigning against "better enforcement powers" for an existing "no cycling" policy.

It has to be done carefully, for sure, but local groups here have long campaigned against lifting the current "no cycling" orders as unreasonable...

I would agree that there was an opportunity to campaign for lifting the TRO outside of the hours covered by the PSPO. Their is a CTC RtR rep covering the area but to my knowledge there is no campaign group.
Hand wash only. Do not iron.

Bmblbzzz
Posts: 2922
Joined: 18 May 2012, 7:56pm
Location: From here to there.

Re: Public Space Protection Order to prohibit cycling.

Postby Bmblbzzz » 18 Aug 2016, 1:54pm

PSPOs seem designed to let local authorities ban absolutely anything, with FPNs backed up by court fines up to £1,000.
http://www.politics.co.uk/comment-analy ... d-sleeping

Flinders
Posts: 3014
Joined: 10 Mar 2009, 6:47pm

Re: Public Space Protection Order to prohibit cycling.

Postby Flinders » 19 Aug 2016, 10:23am

'No lying on the the street'?? :shock:
I had a good laugh about that one.
I suppose politicians (and some other 'professions') are not allowed there.

MikeF
Posts: 3775
Joined: 11 Nov 2012, 9:24am
Location: On the borders of the four South East Counties

Re: Public Space Protection Order to prohibit cycling.

Postby MikeF » 19 Aug 2016, 8:28pm

gaz wrote:
The section of road highlighted is essentially a pedestrianised town centre, already subject to a TRO preventing motorised vehicles 10am-6pm and prohibiting cycling 24/7. Although one-way it sees frequent two way cycle traffic and within the prohibited times some of it probably is anti-social.

Surely the cycling restriction is the same time as that for motorised access and not 24/7, as stated in section 4c.
"It takes a genius to spot the obvious" - my old physics master

MikeF
Posts: 3775
Joined: 11 Nov 2012, 9:24am
Location: On the borders of the four South East Counties

Re: Public Space Protection Order to prohibit cycling.

Postby MikeF » 19 Aug 2016, 8:47pm

Flinders wrote:'No lying on the the street'?? :shock:
I had a good laugh about that one.
I suppose politicians (and some other 'professions') are not allowed there.
The order states "Persons, who are not homeless or a vulnerable adult, will not lie down............". However that seems to be lost in the displayed notice. :roll: It appears homeless people can still bed down overnight! I wonder if the "jobsworths" are aware of this?? And do people, who are not homeless, bed down in the streets and doorways anyway?? :?
"It takes a genius to spot the obvious" - my old physics master

User avatar
gaz
Posts: 13784
Joined: 9 Mar 2007, 12:09pm
Location: Kent, car park of England

Re: Public Space Protection Order to prohibit cycling.

Postby gaz » 19 Aug 2016, 9:11pm

There are times that motor vehicles are allowed, the cycling ban is 24/7 under a TRO. The TRO can only be enforced by the police and the signing of it is perhaps dubious. The last I knew the TRO could not be enforced by FPN: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=40140&p=320632&#p320632

A somewhat dated Streetview shows the bus section, the no cycling signs appear a few yards past the gate and face in both directions of the one-way street.

The streetview car has not accessed the PSPO zone, similar no cycling signing to diagram 971 has been in place inside that zone since the "pedestrianisation".

It seems to me that cycling in part of the area already designated as no cycling has now been identified as an issue of anti-social behaviour, if it happens between the times given in section 4c. Now the PSPO is in place both the police and the Council's "Authorised Persons" will be able to issue FPNs, achieving the desired "better enforcement powers".
Hand wash only. Do not iron.

User avatar
gaz
Posts: 13784
Joined: 9 Mar 2007, 12:09pm
Location: Kent, car park of England

Re: Public Space Protection Order to prohibit cycling.

Postby gaz » 19 Aug 2016, 9:15pm

The link from Bmblbzzz explores the wider civil liberties issues of PSPOs.
Hand wash only. Do not iron.