Public Space Protection Order to prohibit cycling.

Bmblbzzz
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Re: Public Space Protection Order to prohibit cycling.

Postby Bmblbzzz » 19 Aug 2016, 9:49pm

MikeF wrote:
Flinders wrote:'No lying on the the street'?? :shock:
I had a good laugh about that one.
I suppose politicians (and some other 'professions') are not allowed there.
The order states "Persons, who are not homeless or a vulnerable adult, will not lie down............". However that seems to be lost in the displayed notice. :roll: It appears homeless people can still bed down overnight! I wonder if the "jobsworths" are aware of this?? And do people, who are not homeless, bed down in the streets and doorways anyway?? :?

Maybe not "bed down" but it would prohibit drunks lying on the street - and also sunbathing!

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gaz
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Re: Public Space Protection Order to prohibit cycling.

Postby gaz » 19 Aug 2016, 11:09pm

Woe betide an errant recumbent rider with an open bottle of cider :wink: .
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MikeF
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Re: Public Space Protection Order to prohibit cycling.

Postby MikeF » 20 Aug 2016, 11:33pm

So the TPO prevents cycling 24/7 but the new PSPO states only between 10am and 6pm. :?
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Re: Public Space Protection Order to prohibit cycling.

Postby MikeF » 20 Aug 2016, 11:37pm

Bmblbzzz wrote:
MikeF wrote:
Flinders wrote:'No lying on the the street'?? :shock:
I had a good laugh about that one.
I suppose politicians (and some other 'professions') are not allowed there.
The order states "Persons, who are not homeless or a vulnerable adult, will not lie down............". However that seems to be lost in the displayed notice. :roll: It appears homeless people can still bed down overnight! I wonder if the "jobsworths" are aware of this?? And do people, who are not homeless, bed down in the streets and doorways anyway?? :?

Maybe not "bed down" but it would prohibit drunks lying on the street - and also sunbathing!
But not if they're homeless. :wink:
"It takes a genius to spot the obvious" - my old physics master

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Cunobelin
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Re: Public Space Protection Order to prohibit cycling.

Postby Cunobelin » 21 Aug 2016, 9:08am

It can work

Fareham had a one way bus only access restriction on a road into the town centre, which effectively ,meant that it was impossible to cycle into Fareham itself without a long detour, at least one busy dual carriageway, and a horrendous roundabout

All for a stretch of 100 yards, most of us ignored it

It was "enforced" by these

Image

Got stopped one day by PCSO who pointed out the sign and asked me if I knew what it was......

He wasn't impressed by the reply of "DFT sign 966"

After trying to explain it was advisory, he started a long lecture... about how it was compulsory

Was even unhappier when I asked whether given that this shape and colour was now compulsory, he would be having a word with the drivers who had driven past this sign without parking:

Image


At that point a proper Police Officer intervened, told me to be on my way and had a quiet word with his colleague

Took some time, but we got the access restriction lifted

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Re: Public Space Protection Order to prohibit cycling.

Postby MikeF » 21 Aug 2016, 5:05pm

But the case in point isn't "enforced" by "Cyclists Dismount" signs. :wink:

However I totally agree with you that "Cyclists Dismount" signs are information signs.
"It takes a genius to spot the obvious" - my old physics master

PRL
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Re: Public Space Protection Order to prohibit cycling.

Postby PRL » 21 Aug 2016, 5:12pm

Nice one - I shall have to memorise that response. :D
Cunobelin wrote:He wasn't impressed by the reply of "DFT sign 966"
. . . etc . . .

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gaz
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Re: Public Space Protection Order to prohibit cycling.

Postby gaz » 28 Aug 2016, 1:54am

A more extreme example in Mansfield: http://www.cyclinguk.org/blog/duncandollimore/mansfield
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mjr
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Re: Public Space Protection Order to prohibit cycling.

Postby mjr » 28 Aug 2016, 10:30am

gaz wrote:A more extreme example in Mansfield: http://www.cyclinguk.org/blog/duncandollimore/mansfield

Sucks that only CUK members are allowed to comment there because someone should challenge that member who sees nothing wrong with making cyclists wider and wobblier in crowded areas. Such cycling bans are a precursor to banning mere possession of a cycle in such areas because "they bump into people and can get oil on them" (paraphrasing the reasons used to try to ban folding bikes from buses). This bike bashing should be challenged, even when it comes from cyclists.
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Mark1978
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Re: Public Space Protection Order to prohibit cycling.

Postby Mark1978 » 21 Sep 2016, 12:36pm

So are cycles banned at a time when motor vehicles are permitted? If so how is that even legal? Fair enough if you want to ban motor vehicles and cycling at the same time, or just motor vehicles, but can you even legally ban cycles and allow motors short of designating it a motorway?

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Re: Public Space Protection Order to prohibit cycling.

Postby Mark1978 » 21 Sep 2016, 12:36pm

So are cycles banned at a time when motor vehicles are permitted? If so how is that even legal? Fair enough if you want to ban motor vehicles and cycling at the same time, or just motor vehicles, but can you even legally ban cycles and allow motors short of designating it a motorway?

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mjr
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Re: Public Space Protection Order to prohibit cycling.

Postby mjr » 21 Sep 2016, 1:32pm

Mark1978 wrote:...can you even legally ban cycles and allow motors short of designating it a motorway?

Yes. It's a longstanding sore point about some streets in King's Lynn (fortunately most of the signs are now incorrect which makes the ban unenforceable) and then there are some stretches of quasi-motorway like the A45 Nene Valley Expressway near Northampton. So it's definitely legal, sadly.
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Adam S
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Re: Public Space Protection Order to prohibit cycling.

Postby Adam S » 21 Sep 2016, 8:11pm

gaz wrote:Good point, well made. It would appear to be a technicality over which a FPN might be challenged, with no guarantee of success. The existing TROs already mean there is "no cycling" access to the relevant premises. Arguably the PSPO does not restrict such access.

Does the TRO contain an exemption for access to premises? If so the PSPO does restrict access.

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Re: Public Space Protection Order to prohibit cycling.

Postby Labrat » 23 Sep 2016, 4:27pm

Adam S wrote:
gaz wrote:Good point, well made. It would appear to be a technicality over which a FPN might be challenged, with no guarantee of success. The existing TROs already mean there is "no cycling" access to the relevant premises. Arguably the PSPO does not restrict such access.

Does the TRO contain an exemption for access to premises? If so the PSPO does restrict access.


S64:

(4)A public spaces protection order may not restrict the public right of way over a highway for the occupiers of premises adjoining or adjacent to the highway.
(5)A public spaces protection order may not restrict the public right of way over a highway that is the only or principal means of access to a dwelling.
(6)In relation to a highway that is the only or principal means of access to premises used for business or recreational purposes, a public spaces protection order may not restrict the public right of way over the highway during periods when the premises are normally used for those purposes.

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gaz
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Re: Public Space Protection Order to prohibit cycling.

Postby gaz » 23 Sep 2016, 5:35pm

The TRO restricts the right to cycle on the highway (I haven't looked at its smallprint for exemptions but I wouldn't expect to find any). The TRO predates the PSPO. The PSPO does not create any restriction on the right to use the highway, that's the TRO's job.

Anti-social behaviour in action on Streetview and there's someone riding a bike too :wink: .

If anything ever reaches court I'm sure our learned friends could argue this for ages so long as somebody throws the required cash at them.
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