Public Space Protection Order to prohibit cycling.

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gaz
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Re: Public Space Protection Order to prohibit cycling.

Postby gaz » 31 Dec 2016, 12:15pm

Fine and costs totalling £351 for cyclist breaking PSPO in Bedford: http://road.cc/content/news/214827-man- ... dford-town

Edit 31/8/17. I'd had some hope that the PSPO in Gravesend might have been about to collapse with the removal of the cycling restriction in the TRO. I was mistaken, the restriction is being lifted on a section of New Road not covered by the PSPO. It does mean I now have the detail of the 1992 TRO which is a ban on all vehicle in the hours shown. It now seems doubtful that there is a 24/7 "no cycling" as I previously believed, incorrect signage seems more likely.
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gaz
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Re: Public Space Protection Order to prohibit cycling.

Postby gaz » 24 Nov 2017, 11:12am

Another development in the world of the PSPO.

Dartford has introduced one banning the anti-social use of motor vehicles: https://www.dartford.gov.uk/__data/asse ... t-PSPO.pdf
PSPO.jpg
PSPO

As it is possible to allow the general use of motor vehicles in an area and regulate their anti-social use by PSPO, it must be possible to draft a PSPO that bans the anti-social use of cycles in an area whilst allowing their general use.
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mjr
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Re: Public Space Protection Order to prohibit cycling.

Postby mjr » 24 Nov 2017, 12:44pm

gaz wrote:As it is possible to allow the general use of motor vehicles in an area and regulate their anti-social use by PSPO, it must be possible to draft a PSPO that bans the anti-social use of cycles in an area whilst allowing their general use.

It's also bizarre in that anti-social use of a motor vehicle is already an offence under section 3 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 (inconsiderate driving) which can be acted upon with pretty straightforward powers under section 59 of the Police Reform Act 2002. They don't use they powers they've got, so why would they use these?

Oh well, at least it's not broadening a TRO.
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Re: Public Space Protection Order to prohibit cycling.

Postby Bmblbzzz » 24 Nov 2017, 3:16pm

It's also bizarre in that it only prohibits the antisocial use of motor vehicles between 8pm and 6am. So it's alright the rest of the time? As mjr points out, it's illegal anyway, but the implication is that it's accepted in the daytime.

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gaz
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Re: Public Space Protection Order to prohibit cycling.

Postby gaz » 24 Nov 2017, 7:13pm

mjr wrote:They don't use they powers they've got, so why would they use these?

Because the powers "they" already had were only enforceable by the police. Having had a look at the underlying legislation the main upshot is that the Council's own "authorised persons" can also now issue FPNs.

I'd doubt that they'll get very far without at least some police support but I'd expect the outcome to be either the same level of enforcement from a reduced police manpower or an increased level of enforcement for the existing level of police manpower.
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Re: Public Space Protection Order to prohibit cycling.

Postby MikeF » 26 Nov 2017, 12:01am

Bmblbzzz wrote:It's also bizarre in that it only prohibits the antisocial use of motor vehicles between 8pm and 6am.
Don't think they read that through. :roll: :roll:
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Cunobelin
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Re: Public Space Protection Order to prohibit cycling.

Postby Cunobelin » 26 Nov 2017, 10:17am

I have always wondered whether I would get away with the Christiania on the grounds that it is a legitimate service vehicle

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Public Space Protection Order to prohibit cycling.

Postby [XAP]Bob » 22 Dec 2017, 11:57am

Cunobelin wrote:I have always wondered whether I would get away with the Christiania on the grounds that it is a legitimate service vehicle

Probably could with the one my friend has - it's the wheelchair variant...
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Re: Public Space Protection Order to prohibit cycling.

Postby Cunobelin » 23 Dec 2017, 9:38am

[XAP]Bob wrote:
Cunobelin wrote:I have always wondered whether I would get away with the Christiania on the grounds that it is a legitimate service vehicle

Probably could with the one my friend has - it's the wheelchair variant...


MIne has either a folding wheelchair or mobility scooter

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hondated
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Re: Public Space Protection Order to prohibit cycling.

Postby hondated » 17 Feb 2019, 6:17pm

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.76205 ... 312!8i6656

How could cycling along here affect anyone. We really do need an equivalent to MAG that supports motorcyclists because nothing will ever improve for us if we do not fight back.

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gaz
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Re: Public Space Protection Order to prohibit cycling.

Postby gaz » 15 Mar 2019, 2:33pm

https://www.gravesham.gov.uk/home/news- ... -gravesend
He was fined £440.00, ordered to pay a victim surcharge of £44.00 and court costs of £250.00.
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thirdcrank
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Re: Public Space Protection Order to prohibit cycling.

Postby thirdcrank » 15 Mar 2019, 2:53pm

From gaz's link

As can be seen from this case, ignoring a fixed penalty notice can soon become an expensive matter.


Whenever anybody posts requesting advice about fixed penalty notices, that's something I try to emphasise.

I know nothing about Gravesend and this doesn't make me any more likely to visit.

On the wider topic of using this legislation to ban cycling, IMO it shows how illusory are official policies to promote cycling: plenty of fine words but no significant action. Lip service. Again IMO, fighting this type of order through the courts would be a lot more worthwhile than financing close pass mats, but who has the determination to take it on?

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Re: Public Space Protection Order to prohibit cycling.

Postby Vorpal » 15 Mar 2019, 3:29pm

thirdcrank wrote:
I know nothing about Gravesend and this doesn't make me any more likely to visit.

The ferry from Gravesend to Tilbury takes bicycles :mrgreen:
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Re: Public Space Protection Order to prohibit cycling.

Postby mercalia » 18 Mar 2019, 5:09pm

any one know th road in question? is it clearly marked cann't cycle and the times?
would you give your details? not me I would just ride off if I saw a pseudo copper approach

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gaz
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Re: Public Space Protection Order to prohibit cycling.

Postby gaz » 19 Mar 2019, 8:22pm

PSPO notices are in place at both ends of the one-way street. In practice you wouldn't be able to read the detail without stopping to do so.

Eastbound there are "no vehicles" signs (pedestrian zone) with timings that match the PSPO. There is a gate across the vehicle lane, locked closed during the relevant hours. There are "no cycling" signs with repeaters along the length of the road.

Westbound there are "no entry" signs. There is a gate across the vehicle lane, closed during the "no vehicles" hours. There are "no cycling" signs a short way after and repeaters along the length of the road.

The "no vehicles" and "one-way" both have relevant TROs, I suspect the "no cycling" does not. One day I might investigate but it is not a priority.

Whatever the case I can't see a succesful challenge to a FPN issued under the PSPO on the basis of a lack of signing.
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