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Re: Deterring mobile phone use

Posted: 16 Jul 2018, 5:24pm
by Bonefishblues
meic wrote:
I am taking about a vehicle travelling at a speed such that it becomes a hazard in that context equally as much as driving in excess of the prevailing limit. It was advice I was given as a learner driver, and is still the advice now, seemingly https://www.theorytestadvice.co.uk/driv ... ogress.htm

There is a difference between how you are expected to drive in order to prove competency and how you are expected to drive every day.
On a test you are obliged to make progress in order to prove that you are capable of doing so.
Once you have passed your test you are perfectly free to drive at a speed which is efficient for your vehicle. There is a significant fuel advantage doing 60mph compared to 70mph.

Look at this advice from the Department of Transport.
http://www.dft.gov.uk/vca/fcb/smarter-driving-tips.asp

And indeed such a speed differential wouldn't attract any attention would it - at least not from me. I attach significance to the words "where appropriate" in that linky.

If however, as an example, a car was driving more slowly than 56mph limited vehicles on a motorway, then one might want to look at that scenario, perhaps?

Re: Deterring mobile phone use

Posted: 16 Jul 2018, 5:56pm
by meic
50mph is recommended as even more fuel efficient.

What is really needed, remembering that we have signed the Paris agreement is a reducing of the maximum speed limit, not the introduction of a environmentally unfriendly minimum one.

Re: Deterring mobile phone use

Posted: 16 Jul 2018, 6:13pm
by mjr
Bonefishblues wrote: I am taking about a vehicle travelling at a speed such that it becomes a hazard in that context equally as much as driving in excess of the prevailing limit. It was advice I was given as a learner driver, and is still the advice now, seemingly https://www.theorytestadvice.co.uk/driv ... ogress.htm

That ain't a law. There is no general law requiring people to drive at the limit, at least not until you're going so slowly as to be the sort of rolling obstruction that thirdcrank alluded to. It is extremely unhelpful to suggest that there is, apparently in an attempt to scaremonger people into driving faster than is good.

I remain of the opinion that the part of the driving standard on making progress is often misinterpreted, outdated and harmful to public safety. It should be revised at the earliest opportunity - and I'm not just saying that because I failed one test for that (primarily because I slowed down for a school zone at about 10am) and passed the one where I broke the speed limit.

That does hint at another thing: I can drive around breaking speed limits so I can pass the driving test, but I do not usually drive that aggressively. I'm sure others can drive without using their phones so they can pass the driving test, but that's not how they usually drive.

Re: Deterring mobile phone use

Posted: 16 Jul 2018, 6:26pm
by Bonefishblues
mjr wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote: I am taking about a vehicle travelling at a speed such that it becomes a hazard in that context equally as much as driving in excess of the prevailing limit. It was advice I was given as a learner driver, and is still the advice now, seemingly https://www.theorytestadvice.co.uk/driv ... ogress.htm

That ain't a law. There is no general law requiring people to drive at the limit, at least not until you're going so slowly as to be the sort of rolling obstruction that thirdcrank alluded to. It is extremely unhelpful to suggest that there is, apparently in an attempt to scaremonger people into driving faster than is good.

I remain of the opinion that the part of the driving standard on making progress is often misinterpreted, outdated and harmful to public safety. It should be revised at the earliest opportunity - and I'm not just saying that because I failed one test for that (primarily because I slowed down for a school zone at about 10am) and passed the one where I broke the speed limit.

That does hint at another thing: I can drive around breaking speed limits so I can pass the driving test, but I do not usually drive that aggressively. I'm sure others can drive without using their phones so they can pass the driving test, but that's not how they usually drive.

This is to misrepresent the point I was making to make a point of your own choosing. But you know that, too.

Re: Deterring mobile phone use

Posted: 16 Jul 2018, 6:34pm
by Bmblbzzz
I'm not sure whether "carriageway" includes the central reservation; I expect it does not. I've seen (driven past) workers in the central reservation who had neither a line of cones nor a speed limit to protect them. But they did have hi-viz, so obviously that's ok! They were picking litter I think, so I suspect they might have been doing some sort of community service sentence. And it was 20 years ago so rules/procedures might have changed now.

Re: Deterring mobile phone use

Posted: 16 Jul 2018, 6:46pm
by mjr
Bonefishblues wrote:This is to misrepresent the point I was making to make a point of your own choosing. But you know that, too.

The entire post was:
Bonefishblues wrote:Then do consider, under UK law (no idea about Germany) whether you are making sufficient progress. But we're already in Groundhog territory now.

What point do you think you were making, if it wasn't that UK law requires people to aim to drive at or near the limit at some times? (which it doesn't)

Re: Deterring mobile phone use

Posted: 16 Jul 2018, 6:48pm
by Cyril Haearn
What is groundhog territory please?

Re: Deterring mobile phone use

Posted: 16 Jul 2018, 6:54pm
by Bonefishblues
mjr wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:This is to misrepresent the point I was making to make a point of your own choosing. But you know that, too.

The entire post was:
Bonefishblues wrote:Then do consider, under UK law (no idea about Germany) whether you are making sufficient progress. But we're already in Groundhog territory now.

What point do you think you were making, if it wasn't that UK law requires people to aim to drive at or near the limit at some times? (which it doesn't)

Not that one, thanks. 3C understood the point being made, clearly.

Re: Deterring mobile phone use

Posted: 16 Jul 2018, 6:56pm
by Bonefishblues
Cyril Haearn wrote:What is groundhog territory please?

As in, we were getting into territory we'd discussed before :D

Re: Deterring mobile phone use

Posted: 16 Jul 2018, 9:52pm
by mjr
Bonefishblues wrote:
mjr wrote:What point do you think you were making, if it wasn't that UK law requires people to aim to drive at or near the limit at some times? (which it doesn't)

Not that one, thanks. 3C understood the point being made, clearly.

By citing a different law applying to middle lane hogging which wasn't at all what Cyril Haearn said they were doing? Madder and madder.

Re: Deterring mobile phone use

Posted: 16 Jul 2018, 9:55pm
by Bonefishblues
mjr wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:
mjr wrote:What point do you think you were making, if it wasn't that UK law requires people to aim to drive at or near the limit at some times? (which it doesn't)

Not that one, thanks. 3C understood the point being made, clearly.

By citing a different law applying to middle lane hogging which wasn't at all what Cyril Haearn said they were doing? Madder and madder.

Indeed

Re: Deterring mobile phone use

Posted: 16 Jul 2018, 10:15pm
by Cyril Haearn
I am not a member of CLODS centre lane owner drivers society :wink:

Re: Deterring mobile phone use

Posted: 16 Jul 2018, 10:21pm
by meic
Are you sure?
Leaving more than a cars length safety space before returning to the inner lane, has you in that society from a lot of drivers' point of view.

Re: Deterring mobile phone use

Posted: 17 Jul 2018, 5:23pm
by Bmblbzzz
Presumably this device can detect all sorts of signals from mobile phones. Or will it only detect phone calls? The point is that actual calls are a minority of the danger and distraction caused by mobile phone use while driving -- as you'd expect, given they're a minority of mobile phone use overall. Example today: Car in front of me stopped at red light. Due to road layout there is no point filtering here, so it was just the one car with me behind. Light goes red and yellow, no reaction (not "didn't move off", no reaction from driver, who I could see clearly through rear window; light goes green, no reaction; wait a second, no reaction. Ping my bell, driver looks up, sees green light, engages gear and moves off (bells are useful!). Fifty metres the car stops in traffic and here there is a kerbside cycle lane. As I pass the car I see clearly the driver has a large phone fixed to the windscreen in a holder, with messages displayed that she is reading and replying to. As this demonstrates, a phone doesn't have to be transmitting or receiving to be distracting - just as reading and writing a letter while driving would be dangerously distracting. In fact in this case it didn't even need to be on, as it was fixed in a place where it must have been obstructing the driver's view through the windscreen.

Re: Deterring mobile phone use

Posted: 17 Oct 2020, 1:55pm
by Jdsk
NB date.

Guardian coverage of revised definition of illegal use:
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2020/oct/17/uk-bans-any-use-of-mobile-phones-while-driving

Jonathan