Deterring mobile phone use

reohn2
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Re: Deterring mobile phone use

Postby reohn2 » 14 Nov 2016, 1:42pm

thirdcrank wrote:I'll suggest that this is a matter of public perception, the perception being that the risk of being "done" for this is somewhere between infinitesimal and zero. We see all sorts of media releases of things like doors being smashed down during the execution of search warrants for drug offences and the type of people whose door is never smashed down may be impressed by all the cracking down. However, the offenders know the reality. Now, it's exactly the same with mobile phone use: you can have all the media releases with Q-lorries etc., that you like, but the offenders, who are numbered in their millions, know the score.

You can fool some of the people some of the time.
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PS

I either missed this in my own earlier link or it's a later addition:

The national week of action comes after a previous one in May, which the police said resulted in the detection of 2,323 offences across the week.

Bearing in mind that the RAC has apprently done their own survey which suggests that some 30% of drivers admit to doing this, not many will have noticed being cracked down on. 2000+ may sound a lot but it's statistically insignificant.


Spot on!
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meic
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Re: Deterring mobile phone use

Postby meic » 14 Nov 2016, 1:46pm

The attention has been turned against mobile using drivers (though deflected mostly towards HGV instead of cars) due to the recent case in the courts.
So at this point in time there is a surge of the message getting across about this issue. I suspect that there may well have been a small drop in numbers of people doing it and an increase in publicity about Police enforcement.
Whether this progress extends all the way into next week is yet to be seen.
Yma o Hyd

Psamathe
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Re: Deterring mobile phone use

Postby Psamathe » 14 Nov 2016, 2:07pm

reohn2 wrote:
iviehoff wrote:So I think the message is gradually being got across in the same way that excessive drink/driving eventually became socially unacceptable.


I simply don't believe it.
Stand at any TL for 15 minutes and watch.
As for drink and drugged driving it's not as socially unacceptable as we'd like to believe IMHO,no evidence other than talking to the police.
And similarly so driving without insurance.
The main problem is a lack of detection,and that because there aren't enough detectors(police),the UK has decided we can't afford to police our streets/roads and are relying on fire fighting reaction techniques instead of prevention.
I can drive all day without every seeing a police car,either obvious or unmarked,it's to do with more than a third less police officers on the roads and streets.

Regarding Police presence on roads and streets: I have never been bothered not seeing Police wandering round our streets telling people the time and helping old people across the road. Seems a particularly inefficient use of manpower resources. Particularly when it is so easy to get an officer standing by the road with a camera/notebook "wheeling them in" (as the Hull demonstration demonstrated). Trouble is that it is reported as a limited time exercise so people quickly realise that it has ended and they are "safe from being caught" again. Maybe what is needed is even a small team covering an area where every time after being somewhere the "x drivers caught for ..." is reported in press, Parish Magazines, on web sites, etc. as an ongoing thing (so people appreciate it is not a short term thing but that those officers are out there everyday catching more and more drivers).

I can see there is a balance between "sentence" and likelihood of being caught" and I think that at the moment it is the "unlikelihood of being caught" that is the main reason for such widespread offending. OK, change the "sentence" to 6 months in prison and the balance would change but never going to happen" but it costs many £50 just to fill their car with fuel so an extra £100 fine is not going to even register for many and the points will only register with those who have already started their collection).

I wonder is short term bans (e.g. 2 week ban of driver AND car) as well as the points and fine combined with extra enforcement (e.g. on "sentence" take the offending car to the police who record the mileage and at end of ban you take it in again and police check the mileage and if you've done more than home to station distance banned for 2 years ... Banning the car would help as it's easily verifiable and most people don't have a spare car lying around. Take person's license and use technology to block them from hiring any cars ...

Ian

MikeF
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Re: Deterring mobile phone use

Postby MikeF » 14 Nov 2016, 2:38pm

reohn2 wrote:Although I dearly like to see the penalty raised to £200+six points,I still think it's the threat of being caught that deters offenders,and so needs constant pressure so the motorist won't risk it.
I'd also like to see a minimum £1000+ a 6 month ban for a second offence,causing injury or death should result in the key being thorn away :twisted:
If you are caught within two years of passing your test, then 6 points could mean your licence is revoked and obtaining a provisional licence and a complete driving test again.https://www.gov.uk/penalty-points-endorsements/new-drivers
Inconvenience to people is far better punishment than fines. £1000 might be "peanuts" to some. Also drivers who are close to the maximum points tend to become more cautious eg speed limits. 9 points would be better. There also shouldn't be any "hardship" mitigation. A cyclist was killed on the A31 because of this.http://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey-news/driver-who-hit-killed-cyclist-11849698
"It takes a genius to spot the obvious" - my old physics master

MikeF
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Re: Deterring mobile phone use

Postby MikeF » 14 Nov 2016, 2:42pm

Psamathe wrote: Banning the car would help as it's easily verifiable and most people don't have a spare car lying around.
Ian
What about other people who could/might use the car? It's the person who's banned not the car.
"It takes a genius to spot the obvious" - my old physics master

Psamathe
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Re: Deterring mobile phone use

Postby Psamathe » 14 Nov 2016, 2:58pm

MikeF wrote:
Psamathe wrote: Banning the car would help as it's easily verifiable and most people don't have a spare car lying around.
Ian
What about other people who could/might use the car? It's the person who's banned not the car.

Tough - if driver is the owner then it's their responsibility. If it's a borrowed car then owner needs to be more careful what sort of drivers they lend their car to. I'd also ban the driver as well as the car (as much because verifying the car ban enforcement is easy and contributes to the penalty).

So if you are an employee and get your employers vehicle banned then you won't be popular and would learn not to do it again (when your employer then has to e.g. hire a van for 2 weeks)

If you borrowed a car, don't expect to be lent a car from the same person again.

And when people start getting cars banned then owners/borrowers/employees might begin to stop using their mobiles whilst driving.

I agree that such a penalty would not happen because of the outcry about impacting people who did not commit and offence but then I think that any traditional penalty increase that would happen would not be enough to impact the problem. So I'm thinking e.g. if I borrow a car it is my responsibility not to crash it, not to lose it, etc. and not to get it banned 'cos I use my mobile whilst driving it. Maybe think more of car being "impounded" would make it sound better (driver also pays for secure storage for the 2 weeks).

Ian

blackbike
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Re: Deterring mobile phone use

Postby blackbike » 14 Nov 2016, 3:03pm

We should have lifetime driving bans for people caught deliberately endangering the lives of others on the road.

Why be lenient with such selfish people?

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meic
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Re: Deterring mobile phone use

Postby meic » 14 Nov 2016, 3:06pm

Why be lenient with such selfish people?
Because they have the vote and there are enough of them to count.
Yma o Hyd

thirdcrank
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Re: Deterring mobile phone use

Postby thirdcrank » 14 Nov 2016, 4:04pm

The eventual outcome of this appeal against sentence may affect attitudes:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-37975561

Phil Fouracre
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Re: Deterring mobile phone use

Postby Phil Fouracre » 14 Nov 2016, 5:06pm

Yeah, they should increase it!!
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity

andrewk
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Re: Deterring mobile phone use

Postby andrewk » 14 Nov 2016, 7:00pm

Draconian sentences, further legislation etc....when will people learn that fiddling with the law whilst ignoring enforcement is a pointless waste of time. Better to campaign to force the police to take enforcement seriously...people will only stop using mobile phones whilst driving if there is a reasonable chance of being caught.
BBC news this evening: 1 in 3 drivers have admitted to using mobile phones whilst driving whereas there were only 17,000 fixed penalties/prosecutions last year...chance of getting caught is currently close to zero. Apparently the police have just launched a crackdown which is very welcome but this issue requires consistent attention over a prolonged period.

Psamathe
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Re: Deterring mobile phone use

Postby Psamathe » 14 Nov 2016, 7:11pm

Local regional news this evening said that drivers caught using a mobile are no longer being offered the option to do a driver awareness course and get the "£100 and 3 points".

Do they really think that is going to deter anybody who know that there is virtually no enforcement.

Ian

MikeF
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Re: Deterring mobile phone use

Postby MikeF » 14 Nov 2016, 8:02pm

Phil Fouracre wrote:Yeah, they should increase it!!
That can happen on appeals!
"It takes a genius to spot the obvious" - my old physics master

MikeF
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Re: Deterring mobile phone use

Postby MikeF » 14 Nov 2016, 8:06pm

Psamathe wrote:Local regional news this evening said that drivers caught using a mobile are no longer being offered the option to do a driver awareness course and get the "£100 and 3 points".

Do they really think that is going to deter anybody who know that there is virtually no enforcement.

Ian
There shouldn't be an option not to do the awareness course. Fine + points +course is what's needed.
"It takes a genius to spot the obvious" - my old physics master

Psamathe
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Re: Deterring mobile phone use

Postby Psamathe » 14 Nov 2016, 8:10pm

MikeF wrote:
Psamathe wrote:Local regional news this evening said that drivers caught using a mobile are no longer being offered the option to do a driver awareness course and get the "£100 and 3 points".

Do they really think that is going to deter anybody who know that there is virtually no enforcement.

Ian
There shouldn't be an option not to do the awareness course. Fine + points +course is what's needed.

My impression is that previously those caught could have done EITHER the drivers awareness course OR points and fine. So get away without points and fine by doing the Driver Awareness Course. The change the Police are heralding as getting really tough is that you now get points & fine and no option to do driver awareness curse instead.

Ian