Electric vehicles "could go first at traffic lights"

[661-Pete]

See the report here.

Very creditable, certainly. But I'm sure I'm not the only one to ask the obvious question "what about cyclists then?" We do have ASLs - true - although they're not popular with many cyclists, and filtering up through the traffic to reach them can be hazardous (in my town they recently painted out the only ASL in the district - and good riddance!).

But we have very few, if any, advance traffic lights for cyclists. Are those about to come along?

[Phil Fouracre]

Great! So we got it right! Ebikes rule

[Pete Owens]

The thread should really be titled: Electric vehicles could use bus lanes.
Further eroding the benefits the what are IMO the best cycle facilities going.
It is bad enough to have taxis, private hire vehicles and motor bikes starting to encroach them.

[kwackers]

The thread should really be titled: Electric vehicles could use bus lanes.
Further eroding the benefits the what are IMO the best cycle facilities going.
It is bad enough to have taxis, private hire vehicles and motor bikes starting to encroach them.

What bus lanes? They've been long gone in Liverpool.
As for first at traffic lights - how would that work? It's not like they can move to the front of the queue...

[661-Pete]

What bus lanes? They've been long gone in Liverpool.
As for first at traffic lights - how would that work? It's not like they can move to the front of the queue...

I think it only works if they are indeed given the bus lanes. And selective traffic-lighting.

[meic]

So the infernal combustion engines that produce pollution at idle will be left idling for longer while the "clean" electric cars which dont pollute at idle will be saved from sitting idling. Both fill the space of many cycles.
I assume that is called an environmental measure.

[thirdcrank]

It's just a load more spin. Electric cars are being developed and the government and some commercial interests are desperate to encourage increased sales. Massive discounts are available to buyers. The technology seems to be progressing but AFAIK the present sticking point is the low range between charging. It's a bit like permanently driving around with the needle on empty / low fuel warning activated. No doubt somebody will post that they do that anyway.

In the meantime, these will catch on when they get past the gimmick stage.

[Ruadh495]

Not sure it's the short range as such, but the time taken to recharge. The Nissan Leaf has a range of about 120 miles, not very different from that of a petrol motorcycle. It's not hard to do long distances on a motorcycle, but they take minutes to fuel up, while the Leaf needs hours to charge. Availability of charging points is a factor too.

[Bmblbzzz]

It's a cop out. You can see this clearly when you look at the "clean air zones". These are to cover just five cities – Birmingham, Leeds, Derby, Southampton, Nottingham – and will introduce charges for certain HGVs and buses but, crucially, not cars.

[Rob Archer]

This has major implications for those of us who cycle in and around King's Lynn. In 2009 a popular local cycleway, Hardings Way, was converted to allow buses to use it. The conversion was opposed by locals and cyclists on safety grounds as it was originally built as a safe route to a local primary school. It's currently controlled by drop bollards that are activated by a transponder on the bus. If private electric cars are allowed to use it how will the system distinguish between electric cars and diesel / petrol ones? I suspect the bollards will be permanently dropped and the cycleway become a de facto road.

I'm a trendy consumer. Just look at my GT-S7275R using hovercraft full of eels.

[661-Pete]

All sorts of conflicting lines of argument here. Yes electric propulsion, especially in cities, has a lot of fans: witness the explosion in tram networks in this country and elsewhere (trams being - of course - not very cyclist-friendly in some places). And perhaps I should put in a good word for my favourite electric vehicle - the good old trolleybus.

But just how carbon-neutral is electric transport? After all, the electricity to drive trams, and trains, and (in days gone by) the trolleybus - still has to be generated somewhere. Battery-powered cars (and bikes) still have to be plugged in to the mains and charged up at regular intervals. And sadly, renewables notwithstanding, wind and solar power notwithstanding, we're still producing most of our electricity from good old-fashioned coal, oil, and gas. Oh yes, and nuclear, with all that that complicates the issue.

The one argument that does stand up, of course, is that this form of transport takes the pollution, and CO2, away from our city centres, and relocates it elsewhere. So bully for the inner cities, I suppose.

Which leads me to what I said earlier. Where does the humble cyclist fit in to all this? They don't generate greenhouse gases (well, not much, anyway ). They don't pollute. The bikes themselves consume energy to manufacture, I suppose. As do associated consumables like tyres, oil, brake blocks...

[kwackers]

But just how carbon-neutral is electric transport?

At the rate solar cells drop in price it could be pretty good.
A guy I work with has a Tesla, he also has a panels on his roof. He reckons that up until mid-October the car never uses power from the grid and even after that there's enough sunlight to make a considerable dent.
Obviously this only works if you have space for panels but there's potentially a lot of roof space available.
(It's certainly the way I'd go, what puts me off is buying a new car and paying rental on a battery that is more than the cost of the fuel I use!)

I doubt it'll ever make cars carbon neutral but I'm prepared to put money on it they'll be considerably better than IC cars.

[661-Pete]

(It's certainly the way I'd go, what puts me off is buying a new car and paying rental on a battery that is more than the cost of the fuel I use!)

Same for me. Also, the range: I don't use the car all that much, but now and again I have to make a journey of around 500 miles without a chance to re-charge. Maybe I just have to wait for the technology to catch up. But the latest dismal affair with Samsung (albeit on a wholly different scale) will certainly have frightened a lot of people away from all battery technology, and set back the industry.....

So I continue to drive my diesel. Yes, I get stick for that, and not just from this forum (I feel bad anyway, don't have to have it rubbed in! ). My diesel may be of the 'cleaner' variety, it's a modern car with all the anti-pollution bits and bobs, but still it's a diesel. The best anti-pollution measure of all, is not to use it, when the bike or other transport will serve.

[blackbike]

Electric cars are mostly owned by the affluent.

Allowing their drivers many privileges could cause lots of bitterness and anger from the average car commuter.

This might be a good thing for cyclists, the current target of their irrational irritability.

[The utility cyclist]

(It's certainly the way I'd go, what puts me off is buying a new car and paying rental on a battery that is more than the cost of the fuel I use!)

Same for me. Also, the range: I don't use the car all that much, but now and again I have to make a journey of around 500 miles without a chance to re-charge. Maybe I just have to wait for the technology to catch up. But the latest dismal affair with Samsung (albeit on a wholly different scale) will certainly have frightened a lot of people away from all battery technology, and set back the industry.....

So I continue to drive my diesel. Yes, I get stick for that, and not just from this forum (I feel bad anyway, don't have to have it rubbed in! ). My diesel may be of the 'cleaner' variety, it's a modern car with all the anti-pollution bits and bobs, but still it's a diesel. The best anti-pollution measure of all, is not to use it, when the bike or other transport will serve.

Don't feel bad, I don't. I run a 2001 Passat Tdi, partly run on veggie oil (waste and straight) during the summer months. I did a 'lot' of miles this last 12 months (4,000) due to certain circumstances that came up which meant a few more 350 mile round trip journey's back to my folks. I've given up using the train with the bike, it's no longer financially viable despite advance booking and taking the last/late train on a sunday back. End to end it also takes longer.

I worked out that my normal 3,000 miles over a whole year is a real world 7300kg Co2s. That's if using100% pump diesel, the calc is 7440/actual yrly av mpg (49 in my case) = 151.8367g/km which is bob on for my vehicle).
According to some sites that's just over 50% more than an EV car in the UK with current Elec production sources* http://www.nextgreencar.com/electric-ca ... -benefits/
So an EV doing just 5000 miles annually is producing more real world CO2s than me, AND importantly the NOx and the PMs are greater too (see the web page). This is because unless you have an absolute control on emissions at the power source you cannot have greater control of those important emissions (NOx & PMs) that we are wanting to be rid of. Let's not even get into the current battery life of EVs and how the production/pollutants/health effects of such is nicely hidden from joe public.

Yes, ridding the emissions at source in our towns and cities IS important but the real solution is not to make things easier for EVs but to make things easier/safer for those on bikes/foot that has an even greater effect on pollution and safety for all.

I'm certainly not having any guilt about using my 'dirty' diesel
* Some countries with higher rates of coal burning to produce electricty electric vehicles produce massively more!