Cycle lane give way

tatanab
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Cycle lane give way

Postby tatanab » 21 Oct 2016, 5:39pm

I've been watching a video about a new cycle lane in Portsmouth. It is the usual thing, a dashed line at the side of the road and some bicycle symbols. In the newspaper comments of course there's the usual misunderstanding because contributors do not understand what a dashed line means. However, that is not my question -
Sections of the lane end in a Give Way line. Does this mean that motorists can cross my path (left hook or by turning right) with impunity because if there is a collision it is the cyclist's fault for not giving way?

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meic
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Re: Cycle lane give way

Postby meic » 21 Oct 2016, 5:57pm

Yes, so best to try and get out of the cycle lane to the side enough before you reach its end.
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gaz
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Re: Cycle lane give way

Postby gaz » 21 Oct 2016, 6:01pm

This sort of thing?
Image
Unfortunately the "give way" marking is the one in the highwaymen's handbook for use at the end of a cycle lane. In effect "give way" to overtaking traffic.

Any pictures or plans for the scheme in question?
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tatanab
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Re: Cycle lane give way

Postby tatanab » 21 Oct 2016, 6:52pm

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/travel ... -1-7636242
I did not link originally because the video was not running. The road in question is one that varies wildly in width and with parking bays and shops.

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RickH
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Re: Cycle lane give way

Postby RickH » 21 Oct 2016, 7:36pm

gaz wrote:Unfortunately the "give way" marking is the one in the highwaymen's handbook for use at the end of a cycle lane. In effect "give way" to overtaking traffic.

I thought it was no longer recommended practice & should just have the "end" so it becomes 2 lanes becoming 1 as with "normal" traffic lanes. It seems to vary around here - Chorley (maybe all of Lancashire, I don't encounter them much when I'm further afield so haven't noticed). Bolton seem to generally use give way lines. There is one potentially bad one in Horwich that has the give way /end immediately before a side road on the left meaning, technically, traffic from behind you turning left has priority. Fortunately, in practice, I've never encountered problems there.

Mark1978
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Re: Cycle lane give way

Postby Mark1978 » 22 Oct 2016, 10:02am

Some of them are even worse here when approaching a roundabout it directs you onto the footpath. So drivers are expecting you to disappear not leave the cycle lane and continue in the lane.

reohn2
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Re: Cycle lane give way

Postby reohn2 » 22 Oct 2016, 5:24pm

FWIW, this kind of marking up of roads with give way/double broken lines,as in the 3rd post and directing cyclists onto footways at traffic islands etc,as Mark1978 above mentions is winding up to compulsory legislation where cyclists rights on the road will become secondary to motors IMHO.
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horizon
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Re: Cycle lane give way

Postby horizon » 23 Oct 2016, 12:56pm

AIUI "give way" means that a vehicle is still in motion while allowing the driver sufficient visibility to assess the road for oncoming vehicles - if clear, he continues to move. This is different from STOP which means that the vehicle must physically halt whether or not there is oncoming traffic. My experience of Give Way on cycle lanes is mostly that the traffic is coming literally from behind or at least from an acute angle, say 5 o'clock. This is very different from Give Way on roundabouts where the traffic is coming from the side or better (say 2 o'clock). In the cycle lane situation I find it very difficult to Give Way - you really have to stop and look to check for a fast moving vehicle out of your line of vision that has already factored in your giving way. This is different from a glance over the shoulder in moving traffic. AFAICS, none of the GIve Ways on cycle lanes (especially at junctions) are intended to be Give Ways at all: the cyclist is meant to stop and look, just as a pedestrian would. While the instruction isn't STOP, the net effect of not assuming STOP is probable death.
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reohn2
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Re: Cycle lane give way

Postby reohn2 » 23 Oct 2016, 6:43pm

horizon wrote:AIUI "give way" means that a vehicle is still in motion while allowing the driver sufficient visibility to assess the road for oncoming vehicles - if clear, he continues to move. This is different from STOP which means that the vehicle must physically halt whether or not there is oncoming traffic. My experience of Give Way on cycle lanes is mostly that the traffic is coming literally from behind or at least from an acute angle, say 5 o'clock. This is very different from Give Way on roundabouts where the traffic is coming from the side or better (say 2 o'clock). In the cycle lane situation I find it very difficult to Give Way - you really have to stop and look to check for a fast moving vehicle out of your line of vision that has already factored in your giving way. This is different from a glance over the shoulder in moving traffic. AFAICS, none of the GIve Ways on cycle lanes (especially at junctions) are intended to be Give Ways at all: the cyclist is meant to stop and look, just as a pedestrian would. While the instruction isn't STOP, the net effect of not assuming STOP is probable death.

FWIW,I can think of a situation where if a cyclist didn't 'give way' at a one of the 'give way' signs(paint on the road)on leaving a cycle lane,and was side swiped or rearended,the cyclist would be in the wrong and would compromise any claim against the driver,but may be I'm becoming too cynical in my old age :? .
Think if laws are introduced compelling cyclists to use some of the crazy and practically useless farcilities currently available on the road network,and having bought any former campaining groups by turning them into 'charities and providing them with money cycling as a whole would have no voice.
I'm being cynical again aren't I?
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Mistik-ka
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Re: Cycle lane give way

Postby Mistik-ka » 23 Oct 2016, 8:04pm

reohn2 wrote:I'm being cynical again aren't I?

"Cynic, n, A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they aught to be." — Abrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary, 1911 :wink:

reohn2
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Re: Cycle lane give way

Postby reohn2 » 23 Oct 2016, 10:05pm

Mistik-ka wrote:
reohn2 wrote:I'm being cynical again aren't I?

"Cynic, n, A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they aught to be." — Abrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary, 1911 :wink:

:wink:
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MikeF
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Re: Cycle lane give way

Postby MikeF » 24 Oct 2016, 1:41pm

The City Council has put humps in the place they expect expect cyclists to ride??
Another example of councils wasting money, because both councillors and staff do not cycle themselves. It would be better if just cyclist symbols were painted in the middle of each carriageway if the aim is to remind drivers of cyclists. Is there a need for a lane anyway and why only in one direction. It seems pointless, but I don't live there.
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Ruadh495
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Re: Cycle lane give way

Postby Ruadh495 » 24 Oct 2016, 3:06pm

Is that the same Portsmouth "cycle lane" (now repainted) that finished with a right angle turn of one lane width and a "give way"? The reason: on street parking bays.

In my opinion the "give way" lines are incorrectly marked. They should extend from the edge of the cycle way marking across to the centre line of the road.