Diesel - seriously thinking of giving up cycling

reohn2
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Re: Diesel - seriously thinking of giving up cycling

Postby reohn2 » 17 Nov 2016, 9:59pm

Mark R wrote:Trouble is the majority of the UK political class are more answerable to their corporate donors than they are to the electorate. Shake up needed...


That'll be 'bout right :wink:
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mark a.
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Re: Diesel - seriously thinking of giving up cycling

Postby mark a. » 18 Nov 2016, 9:11am

Forget LPG and all that. It'll all be hybrids, plugin hybrids and full electric (and / or hydrogen fuel cell) soon.

pwa
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Re: Diesel - seriously thinking of giving up cycling

Postby pwa » 18 Nov 2016, 9:19am

mark a. wrote:Forget LPG and all that. It'll all be hybrids, plugin hybrids and full electric (and / or hydrogen fuel cell) soon.


When they get to the point where they are about 50% of the market I may consider one. I want to be able to take mine to my local garage for regular servicing, rather than to the dealer.

Mark R
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Re: Diesel - seriously thinking of giving up cycling

Postby Mark R » 22 Nov 2016, 10:53am

Some reasonably positive news:

UK Govt now have 8 months to come up with a viable plan...

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/nov/21/high-court-ministers-deadline-air-quality-pollution-plan

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meic
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Re: Diesel - seriously thinking of giving up cycling

Postby meic » 22 Nov 2016, 11:25am

Both the environment and transport departments also recommended changes to vehicle excise duty rates to encourage the purchase of low-pollution vehicles. But the Treasury also rejected that idea, along with a scrappage scheme for older diesels.


I agree with the treasury (though undoubtedly for completely different reasons).
Those who are driving a lot and therefor are the polluters, will not be swayed by VED as it is insignificant against fuel costs.
We had a scrappage scheme before and it was more used as an "upgrade" exercise than a chance to improve the environment. Those most likely to take advantage are people like myself who have an old car which isnt driven much anyway and the gains at the tailpipe dont compensate for the losses of the manufacture and disposal of another vehicle.

There is a nice simple answer, just increase fuel prices and usage will go down.
Now what is the government doing to cut emissions right now?
It is suspending the 2p litre increase in fuel duty for yet another time.
Yma o Hyd

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mjr
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Re: Diesel - seriously thinking of giving up cycling

Postby mjr » 22 Nov 2016, 11:37am

I apologise for interrupting your usual discussion by asking for your help to avoid one of the car-free tarmac sections of the national cycle network being flooded with queues of diesel cars (and every other sort of cars), as described at viewtopic.php?f=7&t=110587 - thanks for any help. If they get away with it, this could set an ugly precedent for turning more of the better, wider car-free bits of the national cycle network into cheap roads.

You may say you're against diesels, but will you act against diesels by spending a few minutes filling out a web form to stop them invading a cycle route?
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.

Abradable Chin
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Re: Diesel - seriously thinking of giving up cycling

Postby Abradable Chin » 22 Nov 2016, 11:48am

kwackers wrote:Personally I hate the smell of traffic - petrol and diesel. I can't wait for electric and/or hydrogen to become mainstream.

I reckon the motorcar itself is responsible for much of society's degeneration by separating families, promoting individualism, and enabling crime. That and the home fridge-freezer.

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meic
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Re: Diesel - seriously thinking of giving up cycling

Postby meic » 22 Nov 2016, 12:00pm

That and the home fridge-freezer.

Without the fridge-freezer I would have to go shopping three times as often, which is a hilly eighteen mile ride (or more likely diesel drive as I am lazy). So more fuel usage.

On the other hand without all the domestic fridge freezers we might still have a (diesel powered) milkman and local purveyor of fresh foods.
Yma o Hyd

Abradable Chin
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Re: Diesel - seriously thinking of giving up cycling

Postby Abradable Chin » 22 Nov 2016, 12:17pm

reohn2 wrote:cold diesels will push out more fumes.

Quite a few diesel engined cars are fitted with secondary heaters to boost heat output on cold days. An owner might not even be aware of the heater's presence. With a bit of re-wiring they can be turned into pre-heaters or parking heaters so that your coolant is up to temperature as soon as you get in the vehicle. With a cheap module from Maplin or ebay, you could even make it remotely activated. If the government mandated their fitment on new vehicles, then a lot of pollution could be avoided.

Abradable Chin
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Re: Diesel - seriously thinking of giving up cycling

Postby Abradable Chin » 22 Nov 2016, 2:01pm

Mark R wrote:Trouble is the majority of the UK political class are more answerable to their corporate donors than they are to the electorate. Shake up needed...


You might be interested in reading this book: Internal Combustion.
The subtitle is How Corporations and Governments Addicted the World to Oil and Derailed the Alternatives
Better still, I could pass it on when I've finished reading it.

Bonefishblues
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Re: Diesel - seriously thinking of giving up cycling

Postby Bonefishblues » 22 Nov 2016, 5:15pm

If ever a clue was in the title!

Mark R
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Re: Diesel - seriously thinking of giving up cycling

Postby Mark R » 22 Nov 2016, 9:05pm

meic wrote:
Both the environment and transport departments also recommended changes to vehicle excise duty rates to encourage the purchase of low-pollution vehicles. But the Treasury also rejected that idea, along with a scrappage scheme for older diesels.



I agree with the treasury (though undoubtedly for completely different reasons).
Those who are driving a lot and therefor are the polluters, will not be swayed by VED as it is insignificant against fuel costs.
.


I would have thought that was a good reason to go ahead and get rid of the super cheap rates of VED for old diesels.

For example if someone never makes long journeys and only make short drives in and around a city, then an old diesel has got to be the worst possible choice, yet the super cheap VED is going to make such vehicles seem an economically attractive choice. Also the myth probably persists that cheapest VED represents the 'cleanest' vehicle.

There is a nice simple answer, just increase fuel prices and usage will go down.
Now what is the government doing to cut emissions right now?
It is suspending the 2p litre increase in fuel duty for yet another time.



We are in total agreement on that one. I can remember when petrol and diesel were both over £1.40. Things felt a lot more civilised with noticeably less traffic and most people driving slowly to save fuel.

The chancellor probably will roll over for the motoring lobby tomorrow, remember this was the transport minister whose first pledge was to 'end the war on the motorist'. What an irresponsible ****!

pwa
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Re: Diesel - seriously thinking of giving up cycling

Postby pwa » 22 Nov 2016, 9:19pm

I think the fairest way to change the nations stock of cars from one technology to another, if that is deemed desirable, is to influence the choice people make when they buy new cars. Making new diesels dearer in the saleroom would gradually change the nature of the cars on the road without hitting those who already have a diesel car on their drive. But would the alternatives be as economical to run? That matters. A replacement for diesel that costs more to buy and to run would not be a replacement for diesel. I don't buy new cars, so I'll be waiting until there are non-diesel estate cars, with the running costs of diesel, at £8000 or so, second hand. A few years off, perhaps.

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meic
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Re: Diesel - seriously thinking of giving up cycling

Postby meic » 22 Nov 2016, 9:21pm

For example if someone never makes long journeys and only make short drives in and around a city, then an old diesel has got to be the worst possible choice

That is the exact opposite of what low mileage diesel drivers do, as you say it would be a stupid use of a diesel. Low mileage diesel owners like myself use the car very infrequently for long drives (and often carrying plenty of weight).

VED for all of my 3 consecutive old diesels is still around £240pa which is about the excess I would pay in fuel to run an equivalent petrol car (an equivalent petrol car would still have a £240VED bill to pay).
Yma o Hyd

ian s
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Re: Diesel - seriously thinking of giving up cycling

Postby ian s » 24 Nov 2016, 8:00pm

This thread surprises me more than somewhat. With the exception of the badly maintained buses taking children to the local schools, and the infrequent 2 stroke motorcycle/moped there seem to be little problem from vehicle exhausts these days. The biggest danger and inconvenience to cyclists from four (& more) wheeled vehicles is the way they are driven, not the vehicles inherent characteristics such as emissions. At least a cyclist can usually hear an approaching diesel vehicle, which is not always true of the electric ones; I would much prefer to have internal combustion engine vehicles around me than silent electric ones.