Diesel - seriously thinking of giving up cycling

reohn2
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Re: Diesel - seriously thinking of giving up cycling

Postby reohn2 » 21 Jan 2017, 5:41pm

kwackers wrote:
reohn2 wrote:
Samuel D wrote:........ The engine will happily sit at 3000 RPM (~70 MPH on my C1) all day long.........

Which about right for a petrol engine,but @2,500 rpm the drive would be more relaxed.

Why though?....

I'm going any 2,4 or 6 cylinder engines I've ridden or driven giving a more relaxed feel at lower revs,although get too low and out of the power band and things tend to become 'lumpy' and 'unhappy'.
Bear in mind my experience is limited to motorcycles and cars I've owned,and I no doubt there are exceptions to the rule and engine characteristics do vary.
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Re: Diesel - seriously thinking of giving up cycling

Postby Bonefishblues » 21 Jan 2017, 7:00pm

kwackers wrote:
reohn2 wrote:
Samuel D wrote:........ The engine will happily sit at 3000 RPM (~70 MPH on my C1) all day long.........

Which about right for a petrol engine,but @2,500 rpm the drive would be more relaxed.

Why though?

You can't actually be aware how fast the crankshaft is turning, you can only go off the engine note and if that was the case then a 12 cylinder car would feel more 'frantic' than a 4 cylinder one at the same revs...

The Rotax 912 in my (ex) plane redlined at 5,750rpm. Cruise was 5,000rpm at about 75% throttle and that felt perfectly happy. My ZX12 motorcycle (on autobahns) is perfectly happy cruising at 8000rpm.
OTOH, my original 1100cc mini felt absolutely frantic at 4000rpm...

I think there's more to it than just RPM, I think it's a general set of 'feelings' fed back from the car, noise, vibration, handling etc.

A 12 cylinder at the same RPM as a 4 feels just dandy :)

Abradable Chin
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Re: Diesel - seriously thinking of giving up cycling

Postby Abradable Chin » 21 Jan 2017, 9:27pm

Interesting stat: I read this article in the Telegraph where a representative of the UKPIA claimed that from well to wheel, diesel has almost no CO2 advantage over petrol in the UK. This seems to be (my interpretation) because the UK or Middle East light crude does not naturally have enough heavier fractions to meet diesel needs, so energy intensive alkylation units are needed to reform lighter fractions. UK refineries are also outdated, and building more appropriate ones that could reform oil better would cost shed loads of money.

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squeaker
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Re: Diesel - seriously thinking of giving up cycling

Postby squeaker » 22 Jan 2017, 11:13am

Abradable Chin wrote:Interesting stat: I read this article in the Telegraph....

By Andrew English 12:52PM GMT 06 Feb 2010

I suspect a few things have changed since then...
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Re: Diesel - seriously thinking of giving up cycling

Postby Abradable Chin » 22 Jan 2017, 11:38pm

squeaker wrote:
Abradable Chin wrote:Interesting stat: I read this article in the Telegraph....

By Andrew English 12:52PM GMT 06 Feb 2010

I suspect a few things have changed since then...

What like? The composition of crude oil?

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Mick F
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Re: Diesel - seriously thinking of giving up cycling

Postby Mick F » 23 Jan 2017, 5:50am

Abradable Chin wrote:
Mick F wrote:You can buy the battery, but some years down the line, the battery will need replacing and would cost more than the car was worth.

The current cost of an EV battery is around $200/kWh, but by 2020, if the trend continues, batteries will be costing $100/kWh, so by the time replacement is necessary, the cost to replace will have halved. Have you factored this into your analysis?
No.
I took the figures as of now.
Buying a Zoe outright, isn't an option because it costs far too much.
mark a. wrote:The new Renault Zoe has a big range, and you no longer need to rent the battery.
Yes you do.
Read the Renault website.
ZOE pricing
ZOE is available from £13,995 for Expression with a mandatory battery hire of £59 per month.
Mick F. Cornwall

mark a.
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Re: Diesel - seriously thinking of giving up cycling

Postby mark a. » 23 Jan 2017, 8:51am

Mick F wrote:
mark a. wrote:The new Renault Zoe has a big range, and you no longer need to rent the battery.
Yes you do.
Read the Renault website.
ZOE pricing
ZOE is available from £13,995 for Expression with a mandatory battery hire of £59 per month.


Hmmm, you might be right. In the video I linked (at 3 minutes) he states that you no longer need to lease the battery (and you could lease the car). But as you point out, the website says otherwise.

Sorry about that. Perhaps there are ways, through the dealer, but the website isn't going to give you crucial info like how much it would add to the cost of the car to buy it outright.

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Mick F
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Re: Diesel - seriously thinking of giving up cycling

Postby Mick F » 23 Jan 2017, 9:05am

I spent a day or three contacting Renault about their prices for the Zoe. I was on Live Chat and on email.
I did my arithmetic, and am convinced that the battery rental cost more than petrol. Absolutely stupid ........... and I told them that ............... and eventually I got an agreement about about it, but no apology.

I found out that you can buy a Zoe outright, but instead of a buying a nice car for a reasonable price, you pay nearly 50% more just to own the battery. The only option is to rent. Cheapest you can rent one for is £59 a month, and for the mileage we do, it would be £84 per month.

At a rough guess off the top of my head, we spend about £40 a month on petrol .............. so why on earth would we want a Renault Zoe? I asked Renault that question, and all I got was a a sales pitch. I told them that I didn't want their sales pitch, but to tell me the facts ............ I got the facts, and then told them to stuff their Renault Zoe. :lol:

Nice car though, and I very nearly went for a test drive. Many folk these days buy cars with an equity plan, and going down that road isn't too bad I suppose. I'm more old fashioned about this and would prefer to buy a car and keep it. We bought a very nice Renault Clio Initiale brand new in 2001, and we still own her. Excellent car.
Mick F. Cornwall

ianrobo
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Re: Diesel - seriously thinking of giving up cycling

Postby ianrobo » 23 Jan 2017, 10:37am

another day, another major health warning for London smog ....

Of course Sadiq won't do what he can and ban diesels from centre of london on such days like today which is likely to be all week as well.

(of course can not ban buses etc but can with lorries and cars and yes taxis

mark a.
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Re: Diesel - seriously thinking of giving up cycling

Postby mark a. » 23 Jan 2017, 11:15am

Mick F wrote:I found out that you can buy a Zoe outright, but instead of a buying a nice car for a reasonable price, you pay nearly 50% more just to own the battery. The only option is to rent. Cheapest you can rent one for is £59 a month, and for the mileage we do, it would be £84 per month.


Well done for getting an answer at least. I've just checked with Robert Llewellyn (who did the review) on Twitter, and told me that it was very clear on the launch event that you can buy it outright, so he's confused too.

If it's 1.5x the price, then that's pretty poor. Like you, I don't want to pay £70/month (or whatever), when there are some weeks where the car is barely used. It's not significantly cheaper than even my heavy, big-diesel car.

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Re: Diesel - seriously thinking of giving up cycling

Postby Psamathe » 23 Jan 2017, 11:29am

I see an M1 speed limit is being considered to reduce air pollution

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jan/22/60mph-speed-limit-m1-to-combat-air-pollution-sheffield-smart-motorway (22 Jan 2017) wrote:60mph speed limit for M1 under consideration to combat air pollution

Highways England plans to introduce Britain’s first pollution-linked speed limits to help reduce smog over Sheffield

A 60mph speed limit at rush-hour when vehicle numbers are highest where the M1 runs close to schools and homes in the city could help address air quality concerns, a report commissioned by the agency found.

The mandatory speed limit, if approved, would be in place between 7am and 7pm seven days a week between junctions 32 and 35a.


Ian

kwackers
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Re: Diesel - seriously thinking of giving up cycling

Postby kwackers » 23 Jan 2017, 11:32am

mark a. wrote:If it's 1.5x the price, then that's pretty poor. Like you, I don't want to pay £70/month (or whatever), when there are some weeks where the car is barely used. It's not significantly cheaper than even my heavy, big-diesel car.

It's a temporary situation.
Electric cars are far simpler than IC engined ones and battery's suffer from supply and demand.
Give it 5 years and electric cars will be the cheap option.

At the moment they do only make sense for you mid mileage commuter and not your irregular users.

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mjr
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Re: Diesel - seriously thinking of giving up cycling

Postby mjr » 23 Jan 2017, 11:43am

Psamathe wrote:I see an M1 speed limit is being considered to reduce air pollution

Bit mean to punish electric vehicles for the pollution caused by others, isn't it?
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kwackers
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Re: Diesel - seriously thinking of giving up cycling

Postby kwackers » 23 Jan 2017, 11:52am

mjr wrote:Bit mean to punish electric vehicles for the pollution caused by others, isn't it?

Traffic lights are designed to reduce congestion and cyclists are punished accordingly... ;)

ianrobo
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Re: Diesel - seriously thinking of giving up cycling

Postby ianrobo » 23 Jan 2017, 12:36pm

Psamathe wrote:I see an M1 speed limit is being considered to reduce air pollution

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jan/22/60mph-speed-limit-m1-to-combat-air-pollution-sheffield-smart-motorway (22 Jan 2017) wrote:60mph speed limit for M1 under consideration to combat air pollution

Highways England plans to introduce Britain’s first pollution-linked speed limits to help reduce smog over Sheffield

A 60mph speed limit at rush-hour when vehicle numbers are highest where the M1 runs close to schools and homes in the city could help address air quality concerns, a report commissioned by the agency found.

The mandatory speed limit, if approved, would be in place between 7am and 7pm seven days a week between junctions 32 and 35a.


Ian


I can see the point but frankly the problem is really caused by congested traffic and if able to do 70mph on that stretch is it really going to improve ?