New Danish Road concept 2 minus 1

[Vorpal]

I haven't been able to find anything about this in English, but hee it is from Google translate.
The little video is in Danish, but the little car cartoons are more useful than the explanation, anyway.

https://translate.google.com/translate? ... edit-text=

The word for motor vehicles is translated as 'vehicles', which is not correct and possibly a little confusing in the context.

Here is the original for those who have automatic translation, or in case the translated link doen't work...

https://www.nrk.no/ostfold/dansk-veikon ... 1.13283860

[Ruadh495]

We already have that here in Southampton; a road with marked cycle lanes which reduce the width of the remaining carriageway to the point where two cars cannot easily pass. I don't think it's intentional though. Local drivers simply ignore the cycle lane marking, except to use it as an excuse to pass cyclists even closer than usual.

[Bmblbzzz]

It looks like it should work in giving space to pedestrians. And cyclists, as long as the lanes at the sides are wide enough; but obviously they have to be narrow enough to be clearly not for cars. I've heard about similar systems in Holland and seen them in Sri Lanka, though there it's more of a cheap way of creating a 'pavement' than anything else. Obviously it won't work where there is a lot of traffic, because vehicles will be constantly pulling in, out, in, out; but also it might not work where there is too little traffic, as drivers might not slow down enough (particularly if the road is straight and smooth) then have to slam on the brakes when meeting oncoming car and same-going bike simultaneously. Also questions of precedence; say there is someone walking along in front of you (you cycling), car behind, to overtake the pedestrian you have to pull into the 'car lane' – which is undoubtedly how it will be thought of.

So I reckon it could be good but, as so often, traffic and speed reduction are necessary.

[RickH]

I was sure I'd seen the idea in the Netherlands so I just zoomed in on Google Maps to a random bit of the country & my 3rd StreetView click came up with this, which looks remarkably similar.

I've also come across with a sort of psuedo pavement, but only on one side of a narrow 2-way road on the North side of Kettlewell in N Yorkshire (Streetview link)

[NUKe]

We have this in the UK.
this near Ipswich
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Red ... 79!6m1!1e1

sorry for the long URL

[steady eddy]

We cycled on a number of roads like this in Zeeland last summer. The cars wait behind the bicycles until it is clear to pass. Seemed to work well there.

[Vorpal]

We have this in the UK.
this near Ipswich
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Red ... 79!6m1!1e1

sorry for the long URL

But that is used as if it were two normal lanes unless there is actually a cyclist in the cycle lane.

p.s. the forum automatically shortens long urls.

[NUKe]

But it possibly how the Danish one will work, in practice. There used to be signs saying the cars should only use the cycle lane when it was free . It does work reasonably well as a cyclists, non cycling friends complain, which to me means they have think about what they are doing so its no bad thing. In essence it tells the motorist that they don't have priority and makes it more of shared road space.

[Vorpal]

But it possibly how the Danish one will work, in practice. There used to be signs saying the cars should only use the cycle lane when it was free . It does work reasonably well as a cyclists, non cycling friends complain, which to me means they have think about what they are doing so its no bad thing. In essence it tells the motorist that they don't have priority and makes it more of shared road space.

They have installed some in Denmark, and will soon in Norway. If I am around any of them, I will observe, but I havne't seen them yet.

[thirdcrank]

... I've also come across with a sort of psuedo pavement, but only on one side of a narrow 2-way road on the North side of Kettlewell in N Yorkshire (Streetview link)

But that's not some token cycling farcility. It's provision for primary school children walking to school along several hundred yards of unlit road where the national speed limit has been reduced to 30 mph. In many circumstances that would be too fast there, even if there were no children present.

[PRL]

Would have been useful here
https://goo.gl/maps/bjrxdaEvasJ2
unfortunately the local councillors decided that the parking (outside of Richmond Park) was sacrosanct which killed the idea.
(the path to the right is Sustrans NCR 4 -just about 2m wide with a deep ditch on one side and well used by pedestrians)

[RickH]

... I've also come across with a sort of psuedo pavement, but only on one side of a narrow 2-way road on the North side of Kettlewell in N Yorkshire (Streetview link)

But that's not some token cycling farcility. It's provision for primary school children walking to school along several hundred yards of unlit road where the national speed limit has been reduced to 30 mph. In many circumstances that would be too fast there, even if there were no children present.

That's true, but in my defence I was using it as an example in the UK of taking space from the main carriageway of the road without building physical structure.

The road is 2 way & was previously just about wide enough for 2 cars to pass carefully (I don't think that bit was ever wide enough to have a white line down the middle) but has been reduced effectively to a single track road (cars can & do use the walkway bit as a passing place but, in my - albeit limited - experience, they do so very slowly). Like the Danish (& Dutch) examples it sends a message to drivers that they have to give space to vulnerable travellers, in this example on foot.

[Mr.Benton]

I passed this in Kidderminster the other day https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.397076,-2.2662332,3a,75y,311.9h,59.06t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sxy8ZF0CnOK-EBcF6fwCn5w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

and the cycle lanes were full of parked cars which defeats the purpose totally.

I have cycled on similar lanes in Holland and the drivers respected the cyclists by waiting until there was space and passing at a sensible distance. This was on lightly used roads but it does work.

[thirdcrank]

... That's true, but in my defence I was using it as an example in the UK of taking space from the main carriageway of the road without building physical structure.

The road is 2 way & was previously just about wide enough for 2 cars to pass carefully (I don't think that bit was ever wide enough to have a white line down the middle) but has been reduced effectively to a single track road (cars can & do use the walkway bit as a passing place but, in my - albeit limited - experience, they do so very slowly). Like the Danish (& Dutch) examples it sends a message to drivers that they have to give space to vulnerable travellers, in this example on foot.

Sorry if I gave the impression I was having a go at you, which I was not. It's a useful example on the thread. It's obviously better than continuing the previous arrangement - ie no restrictions of any kind - as traffic inexorably increases, but that's to damn it with faint praise. Grown men digging holes in the road are better protected.

(BTW - I've no idea of the history of this - I just became aware of it a few years ago. I don't know if it was installed in response to teachers' or parents' concerns, after a crash or some highwayman doing an audit but IMO it's just the type of thing to encourage the school run: ie more traffic caused by perceptions of danger, causing more danger through increased traffic.)

[Si]

There was a similar arrangement near Lichfield a while back - built on a fastish country road. In my experience it made little difference to how drivers treated cyclists, and it was removed a while after installation. The concept may be sound as long as it is employed in the correct place and there is some backup to explain to clueless8 drivers why it's there and how they are meant to proceed.


*by which I don't mean all drivers are clueless, but rather the minority that, for instance, seem to think that he quicker they go the more likely they are to fit through a narrow gap.