IMPORTANT - APPCG 2017 Justice for Cycling Inquiry!!

[The utility cyclist]

Get your submissions in, no more than 5 issues per person and not longer than 2 sides of A4

"We are calling for cyclists who have been involved in road traffic incidents, or friends and families who have sought justice in their absence, to participate in their public inquiry which will run until 28 February"

You have less than three weeks to submit as the deadline is 16th January which is frankly ridiculous given the seriousness of the situation and the possible impact this could have, quite literally life or death!
https://allpartycycling.org/inquiries/j ... eview=true

[Steady rider]

Thanks 'The utility cyclist' for drawing attention to this.
They list a number of issues;

Road users and victims
Enforcement and investigation
Criminal Law
Driver awareness and civil justice
These are some of the issues that could be investigated:

Should there be greater priority of traffic law enforcement and’ road crime’ for all police forces?
Should police forces enforce 20mph speed limits, and speed reduction?
Should there be a revision of careless and dangerous driving charging standards
Should the ‘presumed liability’ civil compensation system be introduced?
Do police investigation, criminal prosecution, sentencing and inquests need reviewing?
How are prosecutors trained on the distinction between “careless” and “dangerous” driving?
Should there be more use of lengthy driving bans and resisting hardship pleas by the courts?
Should the DfT, Home Office and MOJ collaborate on collision and conviction data?
Should the Police and CPS be required to report on how they deal with road collisions?
Should there be a National Standards on collision investigation?
Should road crash victims be covered by the Victims’ Code?
Does the Highway Code need updating to reflect an increased duty of care on drivers?
Should there be a clearer definition of what is the standard of the competent and careful driver?
Should police forces/the CPS release the collision report when complete, and prior to conclusion of the criminal process?

Some of the focus is on legal aspects, following an accident. The question 'how can the driving culture be improved' to make cycling safer together with improving general road safety, more focus on avoiding accidents, may also be worth considering.

Driving offences involving death

How are prosecutors trained on the distinction between “careless” and “dangerous” driving?

https://www.cps.gov.uk/news/fact_sheets ... s_driving/

Some typical examples from court cases of dangerous driving are:

•overtaking dangerously;

From the above approach, once someone has been killed, their actions could be considered if sufficient evidence is available and charges made.

Driving offences involving death

would it be better to use;
'Driving offences endangering other road users' ?

[thirdcrank]

While it's encouraging that some politicians take an interest in cycling, let's keep this in proportion. From the OP's link:-

The select committee styled enquiry ...

To spell it out, this is a self-selected committee, rather than one appointed by Parliament. My vote would go for delegating cyclists' response to Martin Porter QC AKA the Cycling Silk who seems to have a generally good grasp of the legal issues and the ability to articulate them. He also has represented or advised enough bereaved families etc to assemble some good witnesses. I hope his obvious growing frustration may encourage him to be a tad more blunt.

Anyway, doesn't time fly. Here's a thread about this Group's last enquiry: Get Britain Cycling Four more years gone, just like that.

viewtopic.php?p=630599#p630599

[iviehoff]

To spell it out, this is a self-selected committee, rather than one appointed by Parliament.

My vote would go for delegating cyclists' response to Martin Porter QC AKA the Cycling Silk who seems to have a generally good grasp of the legal issues and the ability to articulate them.

Such committees can nevertheless be influential.

Martin Porter is an amazing guy, and I have learned an awful lot from reading his articles. He has also been through some very interesting learning experiences in cases he has been involved in, some successful, some unsuccessful. Another interesting learning experience was his article in the Guardian which attracted an awful lot of flak, including from some very posh lawyers. Some of it was due to wrong suppositions other people made, which was because of what he unfortunately omitted to say, but some of the criticisms were also justified.

When it comes to "what should we do about it", his main recommendation has been to take juries out of all motoring trials, including those that result in death. I, like many other sensible people, think this is utterly wrong. The problem is not the jury, but what the jury is asked to do in a motoring trial. It is no surprise they come to the conclusions they come to. The reason for that is a very obvious flaw in the construction of the law. It is capable of being fixed. Unfortunately, it is not one of the issues the committee has mentioned. Ultimately, fixing motoring law so that it was actually effective has so far been too radical a step for this country, it might be seen as "anti-motorist". I have suggested it to the committee they do it, but I don't hold out much hope for it. Nevertheless, I think it is a more realistic ambition than abolishing the jury.

[thirdcrank]

All Party Parliamentary Groups have their own parliamentary register, which includes this in its introduction

... They are not however official parliamentary bodies, and Groups must avoid presenting themselves in a way which leads to their being confused with select committees.

Here's the current list of "COUNTRY GROUPS":
(The list of "SUBJECT GROUPS" such as cycling is much longer)
Africa
African Great Lakes Region
Albania
Algeria
Angola
Argentina
Armenia
Australia and New Zealand
Austria
Azerbaijan
Bahamas
Bahrain
Bangladesh
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Botswana
Brazil
Bulgaria
Burma
Cambodia
Canada
Central American
Chagos
Channel Islands
Chile
China
Chinese in Britain
Cuba
Cyprus
Czech and Slovak
Denmark
Dominican Republic
Egypt
Eritrea
Estonia
Ethiopia and Djibouti
Falkland Islands
Faroe Islands
Finland
France
Georgia
Germany
Gibraltar
Greece
Guinea-Bissau
Haiti
Hungary Group
Iceland
India
Indonesia
Iran
Iraq
Isle of Man (Manx)
Israel
Italy
Jamaica
Japan
Jordan
Kashmir
Kazakhstan
Kenya
Kosovo
Kurdistan Region in Iraq
Kuwait
Latin America
Latvia
Liechtenstein
Lithuania
Macedonia
Malaysia
Maldives
Mexico
Moldova
Mongolia
Montserrat
Morocco
Nepal
Netherlands
Nigeria
North Korea
Norway
Oman
Overseas Territories
Pacific Islands
Pakistan
Palestine
Philippines
Pitcairn Islands
Poland
Polar Regions (Arctic and Antarctic)
Portugal
Qatar
Romania
Russia
Serbia
Singapore
Slovenia
Somaliland
South Africa
Spain
Sri Lanka
St Helena
Sudan
Sudan and South Sudan
Sweden
Switzerland
Syria
Taiwan
Tajikstan
Thailand
Tibet
Turkey
Uganda
Ukraine
United Arab Emirates
Vietnam
Virgin Islands
West Papua
Yemen
Zimbabwe

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/p ... ntents.htm

[Steady rider]

I am wondering about the requirements to report accidents and if some changes may be feasible?

Highway Code http://www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk/uploads/ ... -12-04.pdf

Contents
Introduction.................................................................................................................3
Rules for pedestrians (1 to 35)........................................................................................4
Rules for users of powered wheelchairs and mobility scooters (36 to 46)................................15
Rules about animals (47 to 58)................... ...................................................................18
Rules for cyclists (59 to 82)...........................................................................................22
Rules for motorcyclists (83 to 88)...................................................................................29
Rules for drivers and motorcyclists (89 to 102)...................................................................33
General rules, techniques and advice for all drivers and riders (103 to 158).............................43
Using the road (159 to 203)..........................................................................................61
Road users requiring extra care (204 to 225)......................................................................81
Driving in adverse weather conditions (226 to 237)..............................................................87
Waiting and parking (238 to 252)....................................................................................92
Motorways (253 to 273)...............................................................................................98
Breakdowns and incidents (274 to 287)...........................................................................104
Road works, level crossings and tramways (288 to 307).....................................................110
Direction signs on roads and motorways.........................................................................116
Information signs....................................................................................................116
Light signals controlling traffic....................................................................................116
Road markings.......................................................................................................116
Road signs giving orders...........................................................................................117
Road works signs....................................................................................................117
Signals by authorised persons.....................................................................................117
Signals to other road users........................................................................................117
Traffic signs.........................................................................................................118
Know your traffic signs............................................................................................118
Vehicle markings...................................................................................................118
Warning signs on the road........................................................................................118
Annexes..............................................................................................................119
Rules for cyclists...................................................................................................119
Rules for motorcyclists............................................................................................120
Rules for drivers and motorcyclists..............................................................................122
Using the road.......................................................................................................125
Penalties..............................................................................................................128
Vehicle maintenance, safety and security......................................................................133
First aid on the road...............................................................................................136
Safety code for new drivers.......................................................................................138

Breakdowns and incidents (274 to 287)...........................................................................104
The wording 'incidents' makes it sound not very important.

286.If you are involved in a collision which causes damage or injury to any other person,
vehicle, animal or property, you MUST
 stop
 give your own and the vehicle owner’s name and address, and the registration
number of the vehicle, to anyone having reasonable grounds for requiring them
 if you do not give your name and address at the time of the collision, report it to
the police as soon as reasonably practicable, and in any case within 24 hours.
Law RTA 1988 sect 170

287.If another person is injured and you do not produce your insurance certificate at the
time of the crash to a police officer or to anyone having reasonable grounds to request
it, you MUST
 report it to the police as soon as possible and in any case within 24 hours
 produce your insurance certificate for the police within seven days.
Law RTA 1988 sect 170

There may be some benefit in dividing 286 into two parts.
286a
If you are involved in a collision which causes injury to any other person, you MUST
 stop
 give your own and the vehicle owner’s name and address, and the registration
number of the vehicle, to anyone having reasonable grounds for requiring them
 if you do not give your name and address at the time of the collision, report it to
the police as soon as reasonably practicable, and in any case within 24 hours.
_ Provide a statement to the police within 24 hours explaining in as much detail as possible how the accident occurred and any consequences.

286b
If you are involved in a collision which causes damage to any other person's
vehicle, animal or property, you MUST
 stop
 give your own and the vehicle owner’s name and address, and the registration
number of the vehicle, to anyone having reasonable grounds for requiring them
 if you do not give your name and address at the time of the collision, report it to
the police as soon as reasonably practicable, and in any case within 24 hours.

The intention being to provide a statement of how the accident occurred, (when a person is injured) within a short time to the police.

[Barks]

Chris Grayling has broken another law in not giving his victim his full details and then not subsequently reporting the incident to the police. Same goes for his driver. Why have the Met Poilice not acted in the face if three sets of law breaking. Why haven't the Parliamenrtary Standards committee got involved?

[thirdcrank]

The joint chair of this all-party group at the time of the last charade - sorry Get Britain Cycling Inquiry - J Huppert, lost his seat with a large part of the LibDem parliamentary party at the last general election. Looking on the bright side, I understand he is now a trustee of CyclingUK. He could go along as a witness and give the group some experience-based tips on how to avoid the pitfalls which led to failure last time round.

[Steady rider]

http://road.cc/content/news/216612-parl ... nd-will-be

[landsurfer]

What if most of us have never had an had a reportable accident ...?
In 50 years of cycling...
If we "prove" cycling is dangerous by responding to your request where does that leave us ?
Banned off the roads .... as in a certain American state ???
Funnelled into compulsory cycle lanes...
Time Trials banned ...
Be careful what you wish for...

[Steady rider]

Can anyone access the submissions and provide a link.

[The utility cyclist]

What if most of us have never had an had a reportable accident ...?
In 50 years of cycling...
If we "prove" cycling is dangerous by responding to your request where does that leave us ?
Banned off the roads .... as in a certain American state ???
Funnelled into compulsory cycle lanes...
Time Trials banned ...
Be careful what you wish for...

This is about justice for those that have (& potential victims in the future), it's not about proving cycling is dangerous , more about proving that the powers that be are feeble, incompetent and adopt the law as and when it suits when things do go wrong and innocent people riding bicycles are treated like third class citizens.
If we can address and scrutinise directly those whom are supposed to be protecting us from those doing the harm whom by and large get off scott free even in the most serious of situations (when someone is killed, like the helen Measures case) then that surely has to be better not just for people on bikes but for all road users right?

[landsurfer]

No ..not right !
You have to be so careful to define Justice and Revenge ....
So very often people that have suffered terrible loss cry for Justice !.... but mean Revenge .....

[Bez]

I think it's a little naive to think that revenge even enters into this discussion. Things that do enter into it are, for example:

- How the law differentiates driving offences from other offences, and how victims are treated differently as a result. That's really about how the mechanics of the system work and understanding the human effects of that.
- How laws and licensing can be used and changed to discourage bad driving and to deal with those who present the greatest risk.
- Why driving bans are, if made effective, arguably a much better sanction than imprisonment in most cases (this is, if anything, somewhat the opposite of "revenge").
- What measures are perceived to be effective and how they can be delivered by police forces.
- Questioning the wisdom of legal artifacts such as the exceptional hardship plea and the 14 day NIP window.
- Whether there is sufficient understanding of cycling within TPUs who process third party reports and the CPUs who conduct prosecutions (or don't).
- And so on.

You'll find much of the discussion about individual cases questions why certain people were allowed to continue driving, whether employers had sufficient frameworks in place to ensure safe driving, what were the precise obstacles where seemingly viable cases did not reach prosecution, that sort of thing. It's really not about saying that cycling is dangerous or that people want revenge, even if in certain a small number of cases maybe people will point to discrepancies between, for instance, sentences for causing-death driving offences and manslaughter.

It's somewhat hyperbolic to suggest that an inquiry aimed at finding out why such a high proportion of road users feel let down by the legal system will become some sort of terrifying circus of horror that ends up with cycling being banned.

[thirdcrank]

Looking on the bright side yet again, I see that Mr Huppert is going to continue to have plenty of time to devote to the affairs of CyclingUK, rather than being busy in Parliament.

Which reminds me, what happened to this Inquiry? Sunk without trace?