CTC Travel Insurers Require Helmet

irc
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CTC Travel Insurers Require Helmet

Postby irc » 3 Jan 2017, 4:16pm

I've posted this here rather than in the helmet sub forum because it is not about the effectiveness (or not) of helmets. If the mods think it should be in the ghetto please move it.

I am going on a 6 week tour in the USA this year. I'm in the process of getting travel insurance quotes. I looked at the CTC recommended insurers Citybond Suretravel. The policy wording had a list of activities mentioned including cycling which said any recommended safety equipment including helmets must be used.

So I sent them an e-mail

The policy has a list of allowed activities including cycling preceded by the phrase

"Any involvement is these sports and/or activities is subject to your compliance with local laws and regulations and the use of recommended safety equipment (such as helmet, harness, knee and/or elbow pads). "

While opinions on cycle helmets vary the policy of CyclingUK is that it is a matter of personal choice and unless required by local laws I do not wear one.

Can you confirm that the above paragraph does not mean there is a requirement for touring cyclists to wear a helmet unless required by law?


I've now had a reply. Which does not do anything else other than point to the policy wording. So as I specifically asked whether a touring cyclist was required to wear a helmet and didn't get a reply saying that wasn't the case I'll be going elsewhere for insurance.

The 2017 policy wording states that in addition to complying with local laws and regulations, you must also use any recommended safety equipment as shown below:


unnamed.png


Saying that the policy will not be valid in the event "recommended" equipment isn't very helpful. Recommended by who? Would this be an excuse to refuse cover in the event of a claim.

I'm starting to think asking insurers about helmets is just a way to get turned down. Next plan to find an insurer that covers cycling, ensure no mention of helmets in policy docs, then just buy it.

Oggi
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Re: CTC Travel Insurers Require Helmet

Postby Oggi » 3 Jan 2017, 4:37pm

Insurer's are a law unto themselves. When rock climbing in the USA I asked if my policy covered me. The answer was not unless I was in a party with a qualified instructor. As I am qualified I asked if this covered me and have a letter in the affirmative. So I'm covered if I'm present and not if I'm not there!

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Cunobelin
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Re: CTC Travel Insurers Require Helmet

Postby Cunobelin » 3 Jan 2017, 5:45pm

Which harness and knee/ elbow pads do they recommend?

Steady rider
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Re: CTC Travel Insurers Require Helmet

Postby Steady rider » 3 Jan 2017, 6:25pm

Nationwide do worldwide insurance as part of one account, only for 30 days, but can be extended for a reasonable fee. http://www.nationwide.co.uk/products/cu ... d-benefits

I took the bike to Australia for 5 weeks, cost an extra £20. Most USA states have child age helmet laws, so care is required with local areas varying. http://www.helmets.org/mandator.htm

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Re: CTC Travel Insurers Require Helmet

Postby hufty » 3 Jan 2017, 7:06pm

This has been an issue since 2012...
viewtopic.php?t=64734
...so maybe don't use them.
Please do not use this post in Cycle magazine

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Re: CTC Travel Insurers Require Helmet

Postby landsurfer » 3 Jan 2017, 7:19pm

Is the question ... Why do the CTC Ltd. recommend an insurer that is in conflict with its policies ..... surely CTC Ltd should remove recommendation from any insurer that demands the use of equipment not required by company regulations ?
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gaz
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Re: CTC Travel Insurers Require Helmet

Postby gaz » 3 Jan 2017, 7:48pm

irc wrote:I am going on a 6 week tour in the USA this year. ...

Independent touring or organised group of which you are not the leader?
irc wrote:Saying that the policy will not be valid in the event "recommended" equipment isn't very helpful. Recommended by who?

IMO if you are joining an organised tour then any "recommendation" with regard to "safety equipment" comes from the tour organisers. If the tour organisers require helmets to be worn then the insurance company requires you to follow the organisers' recommendation for your cover to be effective.

My opinion counts for nothing, you need to thrash matters out with your chosen insurer.

Please note that gaz is not FCA regulated and cannot assess individual needs for insurance. You will not receive advice or recommendations from gaz about them. Please direct your queries to your chosen insurance provider. Always read the label prior to use. Posted on a forum that contains track nuts and cannot be guaranteed track nut free. Handwash in gnats milk under the light of a full moon only. Do not dry clean.
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irc
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Re: CTC Travel Insurers Require Helmet

Postby irc » 3 Jan 2017, 11:17pm

gaz wrote:
irc wrote:I am going on a 6 week tour in the USA this year. ...

Independent touring or organised group of which you are not the leader?
irc wrote:Saying that the policy will not be valid in the event "recommended" equipment isn't very helpful. Recommended by who?

IMO if you are joining an organised tour then any "recommendation" with regard to "safety equipment" comes from the tour organisers. If the tour organisers require helmets to be worn then the insurance company requires you to follow the organisers' recommendation for your cover to be effective.

My opinion counts for nothing, you need to thrash matters out with your chosen insurer.


I'm going alone, not part of group. But the scenario I was thinking was for example the BMA are pro helmet. The Highway Code says
Clothing. You should wear a cycle helmet which conforms to current regulations, is the correct size and securely fastened
. So there is two starting points for an insurance company wanting to avoid paying.

I did e-mail them and basically just got a reply pointing me to the policy wording I had already seen.

Please note that gaz is not FCA regulated and cannot assess individual needs for insurance. You will not receive advice or recommendations from gaz about them. Please direct your queries to your chosen insurance provider. Always read the label prior to use. Posted on a forum that contains track nuts and cannot be guaranteed track nut free. Handwash in gnats milk under the light of a full moon only. Do not dry clean.[/quote]

andrewk
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Re: CTC Travel Insurers Require Helmet

Postby andrewk » 3 Jan 2017, 11:41pm

landsurfer wrote:Is the question ... Why do the CTC Ltd. recommend an insurer that is in conflict with its policies ..... surely CTC Ltd should remove recommendation from any insurer that demands the use of equipment not required by company regulations ?


Because in common with many charities they are less interested in recommending the best product or service than in generating commission or fee income.

landsurfer
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Re: CTC Travel Insurers Require Helmet

Postby landsurfer » 3 Jan 2017, 11:47pm

andrewk wrote:
landsurfer wrote:Is the question ... Why do the CTC Ltd. recommend an insurer that is in conflict with its policies ..... surely CTC Ltd should remove recommendation from any insurer that demands the use of equipment not required by company regulations ?


Because in common with many charities they are less interested in recommending the best product or service than in generating commission or fee income.


Sort of thought that was the issue ..... let the revolution begin ........
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irc
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Re: CTC Travel Insurers Require Helmet

Postby irc » 4 Jan 2017, 12:34am

hufty wrote:This has been an issue since 2012...
viewtopic.php?t=64734
...so maybe don't use them.


Wow! With experiences like that and reluctance to cover cycle tourist unless dressed like an ice hockey player why are the CTC working with them. Surely not just going for the highest bidder regardless of cover?

I'm going elsewhere.

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Re: CTC Travel Insurers Require Helmet

Postby Psamathe » 4 Jan 2017, 9:55am

irc wrote:
hufty wrote:This has been an issue since 2012...
viewtopic.php?t=64734
...so maybe don't use them.


... why are the CTC working with them. Surely not just going for the highest bidder regardless of cover?
...

I makes you start to wonder how committed the CTC are to the policy of personal choice over helmet wearing. This in addition to another topic raised recently where a local/member group implemented a "no magic hat, no ride" formal policy.

Ian

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mjr
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Re: CTC Travel Insurers Require Helmet

Postby mjr » 4 Jan 2017, 11:04am

hufty wrote:This has been an issue since 2012...
viewtopic.php?t=64734
...so maybe don't use them.

I don't see the "safety" equipment dodge in there but maybe I missed it.

I've commented before that any insurers including such baseless prejudiced exclusions are probably slippery operators not worth using because they'll try to abandon you when you try to claim.
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Re: CTC Travel Insurers Require Helmet

Postby gaz » 4 Jan 2017, 7:16pm

andrewk wrote:Because in common with many charities they are less interested in recommending the best product or service than in generating commission or fee income.

From the linked thread it is clear that CTC were using this insurer before the Charity conversion. I do not know what financial arrangements may exist between CTC and this (or any other) insurer. I doubt that CTC being a charity has any relevance to such arrangements, YMMV.
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Re: CTC Travel Insurers Require Helmet

Postby mjr » 21 Jan 2017, 7:39pm

I've just renewed my travel insurance and I've noticed three other tricks that cyclists may want to be aware of:
  • Cycle touring being specifically excluded from leisure cycling and classified as either a risky sport or an extreme sport - one policy I saw had put cycle touring in the extreme package alongside flying microlights and that sort of thing!
  • A low altitude limit for cycle touring... so if you're off over any Alpine pass, you'd have to buy their add-on that includes mountain biking!
  • All cycling being excluded from third-party liability cover, just like it is for motorcycling. CTC full members have cover everywhere except USA and Canada anyway, but affiliate and non-members may want to buy CTC's or LCC's insurance if they get or have such a policy.

There also seem to be three different health screening systems in use: one that asks you about the medicines first; one that asks you for conditions and then a load of barely-relevant questions (seems to be called Healix); and one that asks you for conditions and then some relevant questions.

Holidaysafe (1000m altitude limit!) and LV look relatively sane to me. Watch out!
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